Book recommendations.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock!

IIRC Svetlana Oss has published two books; One is Don't go There and the second is just a transcription of the autopsy reports.

I have them both somewhere.

The autopsy reports are interesting, largely for what they don't include, and probably should!

I'd say that one is worth having.

Re Don't go There. I remember thinking it was OK, but I personally preferred the McCloskey and Eichar accounts by a mile.

It's a while since I read any of them though, so I can't recall what brought me to that conclusion.

When I get time I'll have a poke around among my Dyatlov books and try to refresh my memory and get back to you!

It looks like the version on Kindle is just the post mortem which is a little strange. So if I do go for another book it will probably be between McCloskey and Eichar. Eeny meeny……..

[Ms Diddles]

You're right Miss D, it's a case that just keeps on confusing me.

Here is an an interesting link from the Igor Pavlov book.

Lot's of photographs and other source material.

1079 (dyatlovpass.com)

Thanks for that, Barn!

I'd heard tell of that book but had previously been unable to find an edition in English.

I've immediately taken the plunge and bought it!!

I think this is the one that was serialised on Russian tv some time ago....??

[Ms Diddles]

I don’t think I could cope with another case Ms D even though all’s quiet on the Wallace front (thankfully) I’ve now transferred to the murder of Carrie Brown with Howard over on JTRForums. Another intriguing case imo.

Good to hear you're keeping busy, Herlock!

I still predict that if you read another couple of books on Dyatlov, you'll get hooked though....!

Resistance is futile!

[Ms Diddles]

It looks like the version on Kindle is just the post mortem which is a little strange. So if I do go for another book it will probably be between McCloskey and Eichar. Eeny meeny……..

Take your pick!

They each propose a completely different solution, but they are both quite good on the facts of the case and they're both well written as I recall.

[c.d.]

Hi Herlock,

I am still a little confused here. If they were killed by "a small team" would the search team have found their tracks?

c.d.

[Ms Diddles]

Thanks for this, Herlock.

So apparently the rescue team covered up what they found at the scene. Is that correct?

c.d.

Hmmmmmm!

I'm no expert, and it's a while since I read any books on this subject but IIRC the idea was more that the military had been involved and covered their tracks well before the searchers discovered the site.

The snow showed the prints of the hikers moving down the hill in an orderly fashion, but there were no extraneous prints at all, which one would expect to see if others were present.

I'm sure there was one weird report of a (military?) helicopter being seen at the site at the time of the disappearance, but I've a feeling that featured in one of the more obscure, less reputable books that I read and is not mentioned elsewhere.

It can probably be taken with a pinch of salt.

[Ms Diddles]

Hi Herlock,

I am still a little confused here. If they were killed by "a small team" would the search team have found their tracks?

c.d.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree as above.

As well as the military, the local Mansi tribe and a group of escaped convicts were also theorised to be responsible.

Then there's the menk / yeti!

[c.d.]

Curiouser and curiouser. Eventually, they will probably find some cachous and a photo of a man wearing a peaked cap. What an incredibly bizarre mystery!

My guess is that there is a combination of explanations. No one size fitting all.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Just a random thought -- the cutting of the tent seems key. A very irrational thing to do in freezing temperatures. To me, it suggest panic, i.e., an avalanche or the belief an avalanche was occurring. If the Russian military showed up at night, I can see them awakened by the sound of snowmobiles or voices but I think they simply would have emerged from the tent to investigate not cut it.

Don't hold me to any of this. Not even sure at this point where I am going with this line of thinking.

c.d.

[Ms Diddles]

Just a random thought -- the cutting of the tent seems key. A very irrational thing to do in freezing temperatures. To me, it suggest panic, i.e., an avalanche or the belief an avalanche was occurring. If the Russian military showed up at night, I can see them awakened by the sound of snowmobiles or voices but I think they simply would have emerged from the tent to investigate not cut it.

Don't hold me to any of this. Not even sure at this point where I am going with this line of thinking.

c.d.

I agree c.d.

Damaging their own tent in such conditions was tantamount to suicide.

The hikers were all experienced outdoors people who would have known that.

The danger presented by whatever caused them to vacate the tent in that fashion must have been absolute and immediate (or at least perceived that way).

That's why I lean towards avalanche as the most likely explanation, now it has been established that the topography would not preclude that (as was initially surmised).

Against that however is the fact that the items inside the tent showed no sign of disarray as one would expect in the aftermath of an avalanche.

Also, the foot prints down the hill were orderly and did not show signs of running or panic (although it was evident from the prints that the hikers were all bare foot or just wearing socks).

I've also speculated before that experienced hikers would likely avoid an avalanche by moving horizontally out of it's path rather than downhill in front of ět, but then I'm not exactly known for my survivalist prowess, so that may be a mis-fire!!!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

I am still a little confused here. If they were killed by "a small team" would the search team have found their tracks?

c.d.

Hi c.d.

I don’t think that I described it very well. Basically she suggests that one of the team might have been a Soviet spy passing false (nuclear) secrets on to a foreign power (USA/Germany for example) who then found out that the info was fake. The foreign power then sent in an small assassination team of 3-5 agents who killed everyone (after using torture to find out what they all knew) Some of the hikers were just bound and left to freeze to death. I just looked through her scenario again and she doesn’t mention the absence of any unexplained tracks but she does mention snow drifts so perhaps she’s suggesting that drifting snow might have covered some of the tracks with the ones remaining being indistinguishable from the hikers own? I don’t know. She does mention the possibility that other evidence ‘might’ have been discovered by the authorities after the snow melted but were kept secret. (The Soviets…keeping secrets?..Surely not)

I can see human intervention (murder) but I’m not keen on this particular theory tbh.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I agree c.d.

Damaging their own tent in such conditions was tantamount to suicide.

The hikers were all experienced outdoors people who would have known that.

The danger presented by whatever caused them to vacate the tent in that fashion must have been absolute and immediate (or at least perceived that way).

That's why I lean towards avalanche as the most likely explanation, now it has been established that the topography would not preclude that (as was initially surmised).

Against that however is the fact that the items inside the tent showed no sign of disarray as one would expect in the aftermath of an avalanche.

Also, the foot prints down the hill were orderly and did not show signs of running or panic (although it was evident from the prints that the hikers were all bare foot or just wearing socks).

I've also speculated before that experienced hikers would likely avoid an avalanche by moving horizontally out of it's path rather than downhill in front of ět, but then I'm not exactly known for my survivalist prowess, so that may be a mis-fire!!!

Anderson suggests that the shredding of the tent was so that the hikers who were going to be left to freeze to death couldn’t have used it as shelter should they have managed to free themselves.

On the avalanche she deals with this by saying that there were no signs of an avalanche having occurred and that the searchers ruled out an avalanche immediately. As she says, if there was an avalanche wouldn’t there have been signs? Displaced snow/downed trees/debris? She also asks why there was no signs of avalanche damage within the tent either? A cup of cocoa was still upright and pack of crackers and other delicate items were undamaged.

[Ms Diddles]

Anderson suggests that the shredding of the tent was so that the hikers who were going to be left to freeze to death couldn’t have used it as shelter should they have managed to free themselves.

On the avalanche she deals with this by saying that there were no signs of an avalanche having occurred and that the searchers ruled out an avalanche immediately. As she says, if there was an avalanche wouldn’t there have been signs? Displaced snow/downed trees/debris? She also asks why there was no signs of avalanche damage within the tent either? A cup of cocoa was still upright and pack of crackers and other delicate items were undamaged.

I believe that the recent avalanche study proved that in certain conditions slab avalanches can occur and leave no evidence behind surprisingly quickly.

I'm sure the link to that study is on here somewhere.

Perhaps on the thread that I bumped.

Agreed about the cocoa and crackers though.

I think a few witnesses testified that the contents of the tent appeared undisturbed.

Weird!

[Ms Diddles]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022...pass-incident/

Posted by String on the other thread.

[Herlock Sholmes]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2022...pass-incident/

Posted by String on the other thread.

I don’t know if it’s down to my tech but that page comes up a dimmer and nothing happens when I click on any of the items. I can’t see any mention on there of Dyatlov Pass either.