the victims werent prostitutes

[jerryd]

Hi Jerry,

Interesting article.

Have you got a date etc?

Regards,

Simon

I’ll dig it up Simon. I think it was 1886 or 1887 IIRC. It is in my Imgur file but I didn’t save it with the newspaper date. Unfortunately. I think I posted this on one of the forums previously with the paper name and date when I first found it.

[MrBarnett]

Its always been a bone of contention about these women possibly knowing each other, we know in at least 1 case its likely true. Dorset street was the drain that the neighborhood washed down into...its likely all the victims could have been found on or in that street at some point, even in the 12 months Kelly lived there.

My interpretation of the known data tells me that Marys behaviour was not knew, and that her pattern of life had likely been fairly consistent since she left the bordello. Earn enough to go on a bender, and when it was over, she would reluctantly earn again. She had run arrears in previous rental spaces, and her lack of funds during that period had nothing to do with any fear of walking the streets, there had been no rippings yet.

Marie Jeanette had been installed in a bordello where monied gentlemen would be her company. She had nice dresses. She went to Paris in the employ of some gentlemen, as a paid consort. She likely drank fine wines, ate well, and learned the ropes of the well heeled. Having to then work the streets while based in a hovel, servicing smelly dockers and ruffians out and about in the middle of the night probably didnt appeal to her.

Anyone wonder what transpired there? How did she fall from the higher end escort to the street whore..and why? She apparently was still attractive. She did retrieve some nice dresses from Mrs Buki, perhaps she could have appealed to someone she met at the bordello to "sponsor' her.

I have a theory about that, and it may tie into her murder. Lets remember that Paris at that time was meeting place for terrorists, politicians, under cover espionage agents, plotters and scammers. Interesting that Anderson suddenly is in Paris when he is recalled to London. Why? Switzerland not "restful" enough? Anderson,..a key player in the Central Intelligence community thriving in London, a man who knew double agents and snitches, bombers and aristocrats.

I think whomever Mary Kelly was she knew someone she shouldnt have, or something she shouldnt have. I think the Paris trip scared her...enough to leave the protective environment of the bordello and wallow in the ghetto. A small room in a tiny court..maybe she thought she could get lost in the vast numbers on Millers Street alone. Maybe Kate, and her usage of 98% of Marys full name and address in her last 2 aliases, was intended to leave a trail in case something happened to her. Kate being the Irish connection in these murders. I think Kate knew some bad dude Fenian types. Maybe "Mary" did as well.

Since they were both killed during a period where Fenian subversive activity was being investigated at the Parliamentary level, a hearing where at least 1 double agent was paid 5,000L for his testimony..(any idea of the equivalent value of that today), and the streets of the east end were crawling with Irish self rule factions, socialist anarchists, and snithches and spies....maybe the climate dictated their being silenced.

But Mary didn't flee the 'bordello' for the anonymity of Spitalfields, she went to the Ratcliffe Highway.

Why do you say Kate is the Irish connection - because of Conway? Her family in Wolverhampton seem to have been somewhat anti-Irish.

[Sam Flynn]

its likely all the victims could have been found on or in that street at some point, even in the 12 months Kelly lived there.

Doesn't mean they were acquainted with one other, anymore than the thousands of other women who'd have wafted in and out of Dorset Street during that time.

[packers stem]

Doesn't mean they were acquainted with one other, anymore than the thousands of other women who'd have wafted in and out of Dorset Street during that time.

Other than they all lived on the same side of the street between 26 and 38 other than Eddowes who had, by accounts , stayed at the shed .Quite possibly on a 'penny hang' .
Nichols and Chapman being in the same lodging .
All women of similar age (bar Kelly ) with The same money issues
The horn of plenty being in the same terrace and tiny .Even the commercial street pubs they all frequented were tiny
It would be naive in the extreme to believe that they were not friends

[packers stem]

But Mary didn't flee the 'bordello' for the anonymity of Spitalfields, she went to the Ratcliffe Highway.

Why do you say Kate is the Irish connection - because of Conway? Her family in Wolverhampton seem to have been somewhat anti-Irish.

Conway and Kelly in all probability

[Busy Beaver]

I've just looked at her website and it seems Sex and Scandal are the main interests of this author. Looking at the blurbs for the book, I would say that most of the research has come from these very boards...

[MrBarnett]

Conway and Kelly in all probability

There must be more to it than that, surely. How would the fact that Kate had lived with an Irishman who was a pensioner from the British army and another man with an Irish name lead you to the conclusion that she knew 'bad dude Fenians types'?

[Sam Flynn]

Other than they all lived on the same side of the street between 26 and 38

Dorset Street was doss-house central; it would be more noteworthy, perhaps, to find that a victim had not used its facilities at one time or another. Doesn't mean that they all lived there at the same time (they didn't), and certainly doesn't mean that they'd have been acquainted with each other.

[packers stem]

Dorset Street was doss-house central; it would be more noteworthy, perhaps, to find that a victim had not used its facilities at one time or another. Doesn't mean that they all lived there at the same time (they didn't), and certainly doesn't mean that they'd have been acquainted with each other.

What makes you say they didn't live there at the same time Gareth ?

[packers stem]

There must be more to it than that, surely. How would the fact that Kate had lived with an Irishman who was a pensioner from the British army and another man with an Irish name lead you to the conclusion that she knew 'bad dude Fenians types'?

These were Michael's sentiments I believe

[packers stem]

But to respond anyway .
If either had strong leanings towards home rule there is no reason to believe that Eddowes couldn't have been influenced .
Political influence often spreads through family

[MrBarnett]

These were Michael's sentiments I believe

And your explanation of a possible rationale for them.

[MrBarnett]

But to respond anyway .
If either had strong leanings towards home rule there is no reason to believe that Eddowes couldn't have been influenced .
Political influence often spreads through family

But do we have any indication at all that either Kelly or Conway were so politically motivated that we should believe Kate knew 'bad Fenian dudes?'

I do know her uncle got into a fight with some local Wolverhampton Irish and another uncle - Detective Cadman - beat the crap out of some Irishmen (and one woman). Perhaps Kate's political opinions were influenced by her real family.

[packers stem]

But do we have any indication at all that either Kelly or Conway were so politically motivated that we should believe Kate knew 'bad Fenian dudes?'

Other than the red neckerchief , specifically associated with Annie Besant and her followers at the time , then no .
Nothing written in black and white but given the political climate in London at that time the chances are extremely high in my opinion .
Your opinion may be different .

[PaulB]

Don't forget, Eddowes's dad organised a strike, for which he did a little bit of prison time. Afterwards, he couldn't find work in Wolverhampton and took his family to London... Eddowes' parental environment may have shaped her political thinking, but whether or not that would have got her in with Fenians is another matter.