Rippercast- The Jack the Ripper Podcast

[jmenges]

I'll be back.

W.K.

Not on this thread.

Take this off topic discussion somewhere else.

Thanks,

JM

[White-Knight]

further to the above, tone and wit were NOT my only considerations,Ally.
and so-called vendettas and accusations...quite frankly, and inspite of the irksome-ness people seem to find in them, so what?

I'm still reeling myself ,I admit from being called 'pompous' ,not to mention a nutcase..was that an example of you giving me some of HIS medicine I wonder..doesn't say much for your argument against AP either Ally,with you throwing around such accusations of ignorance yourself.. as for pompous.(again).. its exactly the overtly pompous tone of posters who quite reasonably want to counter AP, which I was objecting to in the frst place!

I'll be back.

W.K.

[White-Knight]

Ally- you seem to think your little Ripper world is inaccessible to the ouside world..I have been reading posts here for some YEARS before I began to post myself..I am well aware of AP's activity on other threads, the authenticity of Philip's photo being merely a recent but good example.. and I don't think I am speaking with quite the level of ignorance you assume..and yes I was aware of the possibilty you were talking beyond Cutbush..its just that its Cutbush I am currently and chiefly interested in.

It seems to me, however, it is YOU who takes on the pompous and moral high ground quite often, your role semms chiefly to be in the necessary criticism of other's views, as your user name would suggest...though I often enjoy your dissemination.., did you not bother yourself to notice my comments on podcasts?..but you have no real quarrel with me..I'm small fry..though you'll have to try much harder to make me 'cry'!

Meanwhile, perhaps you would be kind enough to furnish us all with your CURRENT views on the Cutbush candidacy, for in this area you do still leave us all in ignorance, do you not?

temerity is my middle name ,Ally.and if I didn't have other things to do, I could sit here all day...

I know you will continue to profess not to care but you're still on my list, for now, just. for past entertainment rendered. unknown to you.obviously.

And I maintain, for all the faults you list , the man has wit and style.
So do you.
perhaps you are more alike than you think.

WK.

[Ally]

White knight, no nerve hit. I am just laughing at your temerity. It takes balls to rush headlong into a situation you know nothing about and start making accusations about people without apprising yourself of the history or the facts.

Did you ever consider that AP lives outside the threads of Cutbush, that our opinions on him might have nothing whatsoever to do with cutbush? That my references to "wildly unsupported" have nothing whatsoever to do with Cutbush and refer more to AP's accusations against people on the boards, accusations that he tosses off without a single fact to back them up and at his whim? That it might relate more to his constant attacks on anyone he perceives as holding a place of honor in the Ripper community?

Before you decided to tell us we were all naughty and jealous, did you pause for a moment to consider that, unlike you, AP has a long history with the people here? So before you tell everyone that in your opinion we are only dogging him because we are jealous of him and his wit, his talent and his carefree manner, you should possibly do some investigation and ask some questions before you start wagging your finger at people.

In other words, don't get into the middle of something you have absolutely no idea about and make judgments you have no supportable basis for and then cry because you get called on it.

And as for being on your list...LOL. I will give that fact the consideration it deserves.

[White-Knight]

Chris oooooh bugger so i am ! sorry bout that!

Ally...o.k. calm down! I've obviously hit more than a nerve! I don't know about your 'pompous moralizing nutcase,' accusation..I'm hardly that but I am yet to read a convincing denunciation of Cutbush on these threads. Exactly how is his candidacy 'wildly unsupported'?

yes you are on a list..mine. and unless you want to make a formal complaint..you are going to have to get on with it. or ignore me. after that little outburst I really don't care which.

WK.

[Chris]

White-Knight

I think you're confusing me with Chris Scott.

[Ally]

J.M. A.P. ALLY, (Chris..if you are listening)



Now I know a lot of people have worked hard, and find this sort of thing rude..and I know AP is more than capable of defending himself, but I want to say that I don't think being a serious researcher should give any poster here the right to condemn the man SO VERY heftily for his style and tone, or even his content, which many seem to find so objectionable, misled and/or misleading..though personally I don't. It often comes across as sour grapes by the humourless for not being as amusing in counter argument.Staying up all night researching MJK geneology or any other taxing research option, worthy as it may be , doesn't give you the right to dismiss people presenting ideas you HADN'T or CHOSE NOT to consider.

W.K.

Oh yes, it's his tone and his wit that we all object to. It's not his neverending vendettas against people in Ripperology that he decides for whatever arbitrary, unsupported reason are too much admired so he needs to take them down, it's not his calling people liars, hoaxers, etc. it's not his constant whining attacks on people, it's not his never ending determination to play the martyr and set himself up as the sole proprietor of "morality" in the world of Ripperology. No none of that is it at all. We condemn him because of his wit and his tone and because we are so jealous of his wildly unsupported ideas we wished we'd come up with.

Uh huh, that's it.

What is up with the sudden influx of pompous, moralizing nuts? Did we get put on a list or something?

[White-Knight]

Chris, well posting factually incorrect information isn't helpful as you say ,no contention with you there..

but alongside your belief that the ripper could not have been very young, the implication ,or was I a bit over-sensitive? seemed to be that anyone who thinks he may have been must be a bit stupid; 'nothing some people would believe would surprise me' ..and that's a bit unfair and unfounded, isn't it?

I don't believe the ripper was 14. But I don't see how it can be so easily dismissed either.

No, I don't know of another case of a boy murdering prostitutes. So what? there's a first time for everything.. its far from outside the bounds of possibilty,given the horrors meted out by some teenagers! You do seem to be under the same sort of disbelief that greeted investigators of Thompson and Venables..the details of their crimes have still not been made fully known, even to Bulger's mother by the way, since they were known to be particularly horriffic. I went to an all boys comprehensive school, Chris..and it left me in no doubt as to the potential for deep and disturbed behaviours in the adolescent male.I wonder what was/is your experience of teenage boys?


oh and hello to you! by the way.did enjoy your MJK and other research podcast..fantastic mystery, MJK..I'm just jealous that you find the time!?! lol!

WK.

[Chris]

Its not just the Cutbush or child suspect angles though, which ARE compelling and which Chris again condemned this very day. (Norma incidentally read my mind citing Mary Bell and James Bulger cases in response)

Just for the record, what I actually said was that Saunderson could be a serious candidate only for those who believed the Ripper might have been a boy of 14 - which I don't believe but, as I said, nothing some people believe would surprise me - and that the suggestion deserved a thread of its own. I can't imagine many people would take the suggestion seriously, but if you feel there are arguments to be put in its favour, why not put them? (For example, does anyone know of another serial killer of prostitutes as young as 14?)

As for Cutbush, I don't think I've mentioned him for a while. I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone for being keen on a particular suspect. What I object to is people posting factually incorrect information. That kind of thing makes a mockery of any attempt at serious discussion of anything.

[White-Knight]

J.M. A.P. ALLY, (Chris..if you are listening)

Hilarious..o.k. beg all to forgive a little faux naivety..it seems being new has SOME advantages in terms of getting you lot back to the dinner table.

the ends justified the means if it will bury the hatchet for at least the duration of a podcast... I did tell you all I've trawled here quite widely and for quite a while before starting to post...the 'Papa Doc' and the 'lowest of the low' comments are not unknown to me.

ALLY,
very funny ..Yes I do like AP! but due to my lowly status I think you are looking at something more like a shaving cut!

Its not just the Cutbush or child suspect angles though, which ARE compelling and which Chris again condemned this very day. (Norma incidentally read my mind citing Mary Bell and James Bulger cases in response)

Its also that the man IS damned entertaining..That Papa Doc stuff was priceless..just plain funny as an assasination of the personalities AP saw being stacked against him.. surely bound to entertain on podcast ( and yes obviously I know that isn't the main function of podcast before you all start moaning..)i'm all for a healthy respect for others ..I applauded everybody's treatment of Trevor M but if only some could loosen their ties a little..

Now I know a lot of people have worked hard, and find this sort of thing rude..and I know AP is more than capable of defending himself, but I want to say that I don't think being a serious researcher should give any poster here the right to condemn the man SO VERY heftily for his style and tone, or even his content, which many seem to find so objectionable, misled and/or misleading..though personally I don't. It often comes across as sour grapes by the humourless for not being as amusing in counter argument.Staying up all night researching MJK geneology or any other taxing research option, worthy as it may be , doesn't give you the right to dismiss people presenting ideas you HADN'T or CHOSE NOT to consider. Sorry, Chris..you seem to keep walking in there...? How CAN you take Mel' Mac' at such face value? (Well repeat-argued on Saunderson's birth cert tho!.AP..you are still wriggling around your earlier assertion there). For a really good example of how to argue with AP, though, look no further than recent posts by Mark on Saunderson!! Great match, lads!

So,..full credit to you- JM ,for keeping the dinner invitation open and concentrating on the meat on the table.

I can forgive all for asking why a site devoted to JTR should be a repository of wit, but I would suggest that if casebook wants to continue to thrive and prosper there is no reason why it SHOULDN'T have these elements present AS WELL AS worthwhile content, and yes I do think AP provides both, though he is far from the only one who does so.

And of course Cutbush not being on the list by now, for whatever reason, is a bit of a travesty, especially given those who are, and regardless of what people make of AP,his views or the way he presents them.

Good luck to all anyway...no more excuses, now AP!? Let 'em come! Doc and all! ha ha ..easy for me to say..I ain't going under the lamp...lol! to say I'm looking forward to that one is quite an understatement..now get on and get that Tom Tom mic'd up. Its time for the gig!

W.K.

[Scott Nelson]

I'd go on if asked, but only if A.P. Wolf was with me.

[Mike Covell]

It looks and sounds great JM, sorry about the technical difficulties my end, but my internet explorer keeps playing up. It has something to do with my modem, but hopefully the newer updated model will be installed tomorrow.

[Cap'n Jack]

Thanks JM & How
always willing to take part, just as long as it is not a Bay of Pigs.

[Howard Brown]

As I can only speak for myself on the issue of Eliminationist Ripperology, I would hope others "see" what could turn out to be a positive development in our beloved field by contributing to this thread and hence the upcoming Rippercast program on the subject.

Over the years, the civilian world has created film after film about Jack The Ripper, casting some of the least plausible individuals imaginable as the Whitechapel Murderer. The most popular suspects and theories,in terms of book sales and public awareness, are the ones written about Mrs. Cornwell's Sickert, Knight's triumvirate, and Mrs. Harrison's cotton merchant.

One need only ask a civilian "who" Jack The Ripper was and invariably the answer will be one of the above. That one may have been the Ripper is not the issue here on this particular thread, but this is:

When we as a community fail to engage in the necessary task of culling the herd, we will continue to have suspects "introduced" to the pack based on a dollar-driven agenda, despite there being no tangible evidence other than wishful thinking to even consider the "suspect" in the first place. It is as simple as that. People prey on Ripperologists knowing full well we are literate, overtly passionate,and are not averse to spending a buck on our hobby/way of life.

What this does is reduce the credibility of those of us who are serious researchers who know that speculation is the best and currently only thing one can do in terms of suspect-Ripperology. For me, speculation is served best in the arenas of what is evidence and what is not... and the individual aspects & scenarios within the Case. More damage has been done to the 'reputation' of Ripperology by the authorship of books which turn innocent men into criminals for money than anything else in terms of how our contemporaries and future Ripperologists percieve the field.

Thats why I think that if all of us, here and elsewhere, put their collective foot down, and tried to weed each and every non-starter from the bloated cadre of innocent men....it would go a long way for future "newbies" or civilians as to how they perceive the serious work of say, Chris Scott or Tim Riordan or Bobby McLaughlin and inevitably create a message board atmosphere here and elsewhere of mutual disdain for accepting tired old premises,half baked "what ifs?" in terms of the suspects.

A.P...God knows I love you,buddy. The last guy in our field who would remain standing in an integrity test is JMenges. If he says he wants you on...bank on it.

[Ally]

Well since it appears that Norma and White Knight like you, isn't that worth at least seriously wounding yourself?