Schwartz v. Lawende

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi JohnG

well i think the most likely scenario is that Marshalls man, PC smiths man and BS man is the same man. And after PC passed them by, he tried to get stride one last time into the secluded alley, and when she refused he left her only to lose his temper return a short while later (this is where Schwartz enters the scene) and attack her. I think he pulled her scarf tight during the initial struggle or used it to drag her the few steps out of sight where he cut her throat and then fled.
and of course she just held onto the cashoo throughout and Mortimer had nothing to do with any of it.

Hi Abbey

Yes I tend to agree with you here....but doesn't it still strike you as odd that a prostitute would give so much time to a complete stranger?

I wonder if those arguing that Stride made herself up to meet a specific client and then changed her mind might be onto something...

Its always struck me as odd that all the other victims from Smith to Kellly, meant their attacker on the north side of the Whitechapel Road.....So why Berner Street?

Many thanks

Yours jeff

[lynn cates]

and also . . .

Hello John.

"However, if she was pulled backwards whilst facing the wall, as Steve and Wickerman suggest, does this adequately explain the final body position?"

No, it does not.

"In this scenario, wouldn't it be more likely that her feet would be left facing the wall, rather than than the gate?"

Quite.

Moreover, HOW would she be spun round?

By scarf? Then why is the knot to the LEFT?

By arm? Cachous!

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Abby,

The police doubted that PC Smith and Schwartz were describing the same man. The Report stated: "It will be observed that allowing for differences of opinion between the PC and Schwartz as to the apparent age and height of the man each saw with woman...there are serious differences in the description of the dress:-thus the PC describes the dress of the man he saw as black diagonal coat, hard felt hat, while Schwartz describes the dress of the man he saw as dark jacket, black cap with peak, so that it is rendered at least doubtful whether they are describing the same man."

Yeah but Schwartz doesn't describe the mans face? Just his size and build suggesting he may not have had a good look at the suspect...

This would fit a 'failed' ID at the time? And explain why the police lost interest in Schwartz

Yours Jeff

[lynn cates]

many a slip

Hello Mike. Slight correction. If the scarf were merely twisted, it would not be tight when examined.

Think of a slip knot whose radius is shortened by pulling one side of the knot.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

strangled or suffocated

Hello John.

"there's no proof that any of the victims were strangled or suffocated."

Surely Polly and Annie?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

yup

Hello John.

"According to Morris Eagle her feet were facing the gate! Can you please cite a reference to the contrary?"

Quite.

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

By scarf? Then why is the knot to the LEFT?

By arm? Cachous!

Cheers LC

Ah yes good point Lynn, but if she was stood in the gate way facing into Dutfield yard with her assailant behind her also facing into the yard...Her left arm behind her, held by the attackers right arm and he pulled her scarf with his left arm, the knot would pull to the left side of her neck...

He appears to pull her back from Schwartx 90 degree angle but as Schwartz crosses the road his angle changes to 180 degrees

BSM only has to move Stride forward by about two paces and lower the body for her to be in roughly the correct position

IF Stride did regain consciousness she then pulls herself into the final position still clasping the cachous

Yours Jeff

[lynn cates]

reenactment

Hello Abby.

"if she had her scarf pulled tight, presumably by her attacker, either by him grabbing/pulling her by it and or deliberately trying to choke her with it, why didn't she drop the cashous then? surely her inclination would be to drop them as her hands would instinctively go to the scarf to loosen it? or stop him from pulling on it?"

No. The pull causes a clinch--as per my reenactment.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

bingo

Hello Jeff.

"Wouldn't the pulling of the scarf be painful? The reflex being to clasp the cachous rather than let go?"

Bingo.

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

Hello John.

"there's no proof that any of the victims were strangled or suffocated."

Surely Polly and Annie?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

I would say evidence, but not proof. In respect of Annie, for instance, Dr Biggs noted: A swollen tongue and/or face are findings that are none specific. Many people try to attribute such findings to particular causations, but often it means nothing as a variety of mechanisms (natural and unnatural) can result in the same appearance. There is no guarantee that somebody's description of a 'swollen' tongue or face represents genuine swelling, as appearances of bodies after death can appear peculiar to observers and prompt all sorts of not-necessarily-objective descriptions." ( Marriott, 2015).

[John G]

Hello John.

"However, if she was pulled backwards whilst facing the wall, as Steve and Wickerman suggest, does this adequately explain the final body position?"

No, it does not.

"In this scenario, wouldn't it be more likely that her feet would be left facing the wall, rather than than the gate?"

Quite.

Moreover, HOW would she be spun round?

By scarf? Then why is the knot to the LEFT?

By arm? Cachous!

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Thanks Lynn!

[lynn cates]

no

Hello Abby.

"if the argument is that she would surely drop the cashous while being thrown to the ground (BS man), then she would also surely drop them if she is being choked with her scarf."

Not at first pull. This was reproduced and not doubtful.

The hands need NOT open when going to throat.

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

Yeah but Schwartz doesn't describe the mans face? Just his size and build suggesting he may not have had a good look at the suspect...

This would fit a 'failed' ID at the time? And explain why the police lost interest in Schwartz

Yours Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I wonder if the contradictory police and press reports helped to undermine Schwartz, as well as a possible reassessment of PC Smith's beat.

By the way, do you think there's any possibility that PC Smith could be the "City PC" referred to in relation to the Kosminski identification (I believe the witness said that he bore a "resemblance" to the man he saw?

Of course Smith wasn't a City PC but, as far as we know, no City constable saw Eddowes in the company of a suspect.

[lynn cates]

Blackwell

Hello Abby.

"personally, I don't think anyone would just mention a bow being pulled tight-whats the relevance? to me it seems it was mentioned because the scarf was tight itself around the neck-which would have obvious relevance."

Right you are. This relates to Blackwell's thesis. And my reenactment was merely a duplication of his thesis.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

por que?

Hello (again) Abby.

"But I think PC Smith's suspect WAS BS man, and folks are just off a bit on timings and descriptions."

OK. Why did he leave heading north, then return? And why did Schwartz--in his story--describe no parcel? (Assuming you accept his story.)

Cheers.
LC