Packer and Schwartz

[S.Brett]

A few minutes ago my partner took some photos of me. I wear a woolen scarf of violet colour.

Lawende spoke about a red neckerchief/ reddish handkerchief (30 September/ 1 October 1888)

The Daily Telegraph, Tuesday, 2 October, 1888:

"a man was, later in the day, brought to the Leman-street Police-station by a constable who found him prowling about not far from Mitre-street. His face was haggard, and he seemed unable to give any account of himself. Upon him were found 1s 4½d in money and a razor, and round his throat was a woollen scarf of a violet colour, upon which were several long hairs, supposed to be those of a woman." (1 October 1888)

In the "darkness" the violet colour changed into something like reddish.

What would you think?

The colour of my hair, of the cap and of the jacket? Beard? Moustache? Chin beard? A foreigner?

I said I am 43 years old. Do I look like a man of 43 years of old in this picture?

[Jeff Leahy]

A few minutes ago my partner took some photos of me.

Another poor long suffering partner

Dodgy as you look..point taken

Yours Jx

[lynn cates]

boiling

Hello Jonathan. Thanks.

Yes, and I respect the other point of view.

Suppose it all boils down to that private information.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

subtract one

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

"There was only one JACK"

Hmm, one too many? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

"It's a sign of the times. . ."

Hello (again) Jeff. Thanks.

Don't think maps will solve these murders.

Moreover, you THINK "JTR" was a lust killer. A generation ago, he was a revengeful person--VD.

A sign of the times?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

speculation

Hello (yet again) Jeff. Thanks.

"all collected within a few hundred yards by someone who lived and worked within a few hundred yards"

Not bad, but MERE speculation.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

gait

Hello CD.

"Could "appeared drunk" possibly refer to loud singing or talking to himself as opposed to his gait?"

Schwartz referred to his gait.

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Morning Lynn

Hello (again) Jeff. Thanks.

Don't think maps will solve these murders.

Not quite sure what you mean here... Maps have probably got as good a chance as any other 'solution' which tend to be pretty weak..

But actually it is Geography that first highlighted the authorities. They were talking about a single killer long before the Chapman murder and geography was a key element to that..

Infact if you think about it Geography plays an important part in most serial killers coming to the attention of the police. Its not until you have two or three bodies in a similar local, that serial killer is considered..

I'm thinking here of the Stripper murders and Mort Lake, certainly the only reason to include Elizabeth Figg is geography

And of course the recent Ipswich murders were unequally tide together by geography...

So i again advise you look at the map of where Kozminski lived and where the killer might have met his victims. Then think about Druit, getting on a train in Black Heath, travelling to Cannon Street and then to his chambers...

And ask yourself why Whitechapel?

Moreover, you THINK "JTR" was a lust killer. A generation ago, he was a revengeful person--VD.

A sign of the times? Cheers.
LC

I'm not certain I agree with you here. Its a sign of the times that all sorts of weird and wonderful theories and conspiracies have been forwarded...another Masions conspiracy being a recent case..

I don't think theres anything mysterious considering the FBI investigation technechs for such a crime... Ask yourself which ever town you live in... lets say Maidstone... If a series of murders started to happen... a woman having a an object inserted into her, a woman frantically stayed, then a series of disembowelled prostitutes on the street...and you were a copper..

Would you

a) Think it was a member of the Royal family
b) Think it was a local group of charity fund raisers
c) Local medical students
d) Consider criminals with previous
e) That a serial killer might be on the lose?

Frankly I think the geography is a no brainer and that d) and e) would be my first lines of enquiry

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Not bad, but MERE speculation.

Cheers.
LC

Not bad but 'Good' speculation

Can you think of another suspect you can place so closely to the heart of an area where seven women disappeared?

It makes Charles Cross look like a foreigner

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

PS While I might be laughing at the recent Lechmere saga, actually as a point in hand, they rely largely on Geographical information to make any case what so ever other than the Nichols murder.

From memory I think some of the Maybrick supporters made a strong geographic reference sighting the Minories.

Some of the Bury proponents sight geography, his travel to work via cart

Indeed many of the 'witness' proponents Hutchinson, Barnet, Donavon, Mann etc sight geographical location as a supporting factor

But when you check out the kozminski Geography, surely of the suspects we have, its the most compelling? Can you name 'another' suspect with closer Geographic ties to the crimes scenes than kozminski? especially if you consider where the pick-up was rather than the place of murder?

And not to lose sight of the thread... Surely Berner street is a significant location if Kozminski indeed lived next door to Duffield yard as a child?

Yours Jeff

[S.Brett]

Hello Jeff,

Surely Berner street is a significant location if Kozminski indeed lived next door to Duffield yard as a child?

... with his brother Woolf when he was approx. 16 years old... I guess he had already been a "man" who, maybe, worked before in a "Hospital in Poland", who was a Cobbler or Tanner in London and, maybe, worked as a hairdresser and as a butcher in Butchers Row... many jobs for a man who has not attempted any kind of work for years... but almost two years elapsed between March 1889 and February 1891... if Sagar watched this man shortly before February 1891 does not necessarily mean that this man has really worked (for a few weeks) like all the other butchers... because there was no doubt that this man was insane...

[Michael W Richards]

PS While I might be laughing at the recent Lechmere saga, actually as a point in hand, they rely largely on Geographical information to make any case what so ever other than the Nichols murder.

From memory I think some of the Maybrick supporters made a strong geographic reference sighting the Minories.

Some of the Bury proponents sight geography, his travel to work via cart

Indeed many of the 'witness' proponents Hutchinson, Barnet, Donavon, Mann etc sight geographical location as a supporting factor

But when you check out the kozminski Geography, surely of the suspects we have, its the most compelling? Can you name 'another' suspect with closer Geographic ties to the crimes scenes than kozminski? especially if you consider where the pick-up was rather than the place of murder?

And not to lose sight of the thread... Surely Berner street is a significant location if Kozminski indeed lived next door to Duffield yard as a child?

Yours Jeff

So your intention is to find this Jack fellow by his proximity to the Canonical crime scenes and his mental state? Then it seems to me that list should be a lot longer than 1 name, if that's the criteria you are using to push this suspect.

That puts MO, Victimology, Signature and of course Possible Motive as secondary concerns when investigating the murders?

I see how people justify their opinions here, but Im still surprised at how little information they use when formulating them.

[Jeff Leahy]

So your intention is to find this Jack fellow by his proximity to the Canonical crime scenes and his mental state? Then it seems to me that list should be a lot longer than 1 name, if that's the criteria you are using to push this suspect.

That puts MO, Victimology, Signature and of course Possible Motive as secondary concerns when investigating the murders?

I see how people justify their opinions here, but Im still surprised at how little information they use when formulating them.

Ohh come on come on

You know you are miss reading what i'm saying... I'm fairly clear to all posters here that I'm a dyslexic...that is a double edged sword...

But it does mean I see the problem as a whole, not its individual components..

So I'm clearly talking here about Geography which is very important when considering the case...

However to argue that is the only case against Kosinski is ridiculous... We have the police reports...we have the marginalia , we have Andersons 'definitively ascertained FACT'

So if you have a suspect with more evidence against them, lets here it!... This is your time to speak up? because what I'm arguing is very clear..

Of all the suspects we have.. (139 at last count) there is very little to actual go on... But we have a lot on Kozminski..that is a simple matter of FACT

But whether you wish to argue Press reports, geography, FBI profiles, or simply the mind set of JACK... you are gona have to consider the case as a whole ..

And that means Kozminski is the only PRIME SUSPECT and thus must be considered above any other suggestions Thats why nearly all the other suspect ripperologists spend so much of their time trying to disprove or destroy Anderson..

But come on lets see what you got?

Yours Jeff

[Paddy]

Jeff have you ever checked the Jewish records as I am sure they would have had a hand in helping? I think that my great uncle Henry Cox could have been talking about following Kosminski. I did wonder about Pizer at one point but that may have been too early.
In my searches I did find (in a list of Jewish Charities) that there was a pub in Church street (on the corner called the White something) that had a charity that helped young Jewish men out of work to become hairdressers and gave them the impliments to set them up.

Kosminski's location could explain why the police were sure Stride was also a victim of JTR, that and they Batty street incident. I found a german Mrs Kuhn living at 22 Batty street in 1884 but unfortunately she had a child from an address in Poplar in the same month as Strides murder. I traced the descendants and they knew nothing. Mrs Kuhns husband was a builder though. Since then I noticed there were a lot of Keils living in Batty street all around but not actually at that address.

I also checked the Crawford papers in Scotland a few years back and found no reference to an intoduction of a lady to Anderson.

I do think there must be a record somewhere.

Pat......

[Jeff Leahy]

Jeff have you ever checked the Jewish records as I am sure they would have had a hand in helping? I think that my great uncle Henry Cox could have been talking about following Kosminski. I did wonder about Pizer at one point but that may have been too early.
In my searches I did find (in a list of Jewish Charities) that there was a pub in Church street (on the corner called the White something) that had a charity that helped young Jewish men out of work to become hairdressers and gave them the impliments to set them up.

Kosminski's location could explain why the police were sure Stride was also a victim of JTR, that and they Batty street incident. I found a german Mrs Kuhn living at 22 Batty street in 1884 but unfortunately she had a child from an address in Poplar in the same month as Strides murder. I traced the descendants and they knew nothing. Mrs Kuhns husband was a builder though. Since then I noticed there were a lot of Keils living in Batty street all around but not actually at that address.

I also checked the Crawford papers in Scotland a few years back and found no reference to an intoduction of a lady to Anderson.

I do think there must be a record somewhere.

Pat......

Thanks Pat

Yes I think your correct... there is more information to discover..

Certainly we know little about the connection between Crawford and Anderson... There must be more info on this somewhere?

My feeling is that Cox was talking about Kozminski... I also believe that he thought Kozminski a strong suspect but found no proof

And however we consider that its far from certain Kozminski was the Ripper...simply that the police at the time had a credible solution and said what they did

Many thanks

Yours Jeff