Is He In The Mix?

[C. F. Leon]

Hi Juniper.

If Abberline knew who the Ripper was, wouldn't that mean that either the Ripper was George Chapman or Abberline was being dishonest in saying that he thought it was Chapman?

Or perhaps he changed his mind at some point.

I've always suspected that Abberline was possibly being sarcastic when he said "You've caught Jack the Ripper at last!" in reference to Chapman. (Or whatever the EXACT quote was.)

Do we have any sort of idea as to just how MANY people that the Police (BOTH City & Met) interviewed in the 18 months or whatever that the case was active?

[Lewis C]

Or perhaps he changed his mind at some point.

I've always suspected that Abberline was possibly being sarcastic when he said "You've caught Jack the Ripper at last!" in reference to Chapman. (Or whatever the EXACT quote was.)

Do we have any sort of idea as to just how MANY people that the Police (BOTH City & Met) interviewed in the 18 months or whatever that the case was active?

I'm figuring that if Abberline knew who the Ripper was, he would have gotten that knowledge sometime prior to 1902.

In addition to that quote, there is Abberline's statement in the Pall Mall Gazette. See pp. 450-454 of Sugden.

I don't know the answer to your question.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

There was a documentary program years ago (the name of which escapes me) where the one detective/profiler put forth one of the mortuary attendants as his candidate for the Ripper. He did some digging and it appears that the suspect he named had quite an unpleasant upbringing and women were not his favorite people. I seem to recall that he lived in or near Flower & Dean Street and so did some of the victims at one time or another, which suggests that he knew them and vice versa and would have no reason to fear him. I curse my aging memory for not coming up with the title! If anyone knows, please drop me a line here. Regardless, he was known to police, but only in his professional capacity. I find it intriguing the idea that the Ripper may have been someone right under their very noses.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The only one that I can think of HIB is M.J. Trow’s book Quest For A Killer (2009) in which he proposes Robert Mann. There might have been a documentary but I can’t recall it.

[Scott Nelson]

PC Patrick 91H may have known.

[Juniper4576]

Hi Juniper.

If Abberline knew who the Ripper was, wouldn't that mean that either the Ripper was George Chapman or Abberline was being dishonest in saying that he thought it was Chapman?

My knowledge of the who's who isn't good enough...just one of my many thoughts that are not based on any concrete evidence to support it.

I just find it truly fascinating reading others that are more knowledgeable than me interpretations of what they believe.

[Lewis C]

My knowledge of the who's who isn't good enough...just one of my many thoughts that are not based on any concrete evidence to support it.

I just find it truly fascinating reading others that are more knowledgeable than me interpretations of what they believe.

It is fascinating how many reasonable interpretations there are about so many different aspects of the case.

[Barnaby]

A follow on question is…is here anyone left that we haven’t considered?

Probably not in terms of reasonable suspects, but I will play.

Have we considered Morris Eagle? He gets back to the IWMEC right around the time of Stride's murder. He gets married in December, 1888, which is a good enough reason to stop. Disappears from the records in 1891. Contemporary sketch is consistent with witness descriptions.

This is actually somewhat entertaining. Go to the Witness page. Pick a male suspect (I'm assuming the killer was male) at random and make your best case for him.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Probably not in terms of reasonable suspects, but I will play.

Have we considered Morris Eagle? He gets back to the IWMEC right around the time of Stride's murder. He gets married in December, 1888, which is a good enough reason to stop. Disappears from the records in 1891. Contemporary sketch is consistent with witness descriptions.

This is actually somewhat entertaining. Go to the Witness page. Pick a male suspect (I'm assuming the killer was male) at random and make your best case for him.

I think that just about anyone in Berner Street has been mentioned at some point Barnaby but, if we just for the sake of discussion, assume that Stride wasn’t a ripper victim then that almost ‘takes the pressure off’ when suggestion a possible culprit. We don’t need to find any evidence of him being the ripper as he becomes nothing more than a man who, perhaps in a moment of temper, cut Liz Stride’s throat so this could include people like Eagle, Lave, even Diemschitz. We have no evidence of suspects being placed in front of Schwartz but, as at least one (2 I believe?) men were arrested on the strength of his evidence so maybe Schwartz saw them but we have nothing to suggest that someone like Eagle would have been seen by him or that he was ever considered as a suspect. Maybe he just wasn’t ’broad shouldered’ as that was the description that would have interested the police.

I agree that you can pick almost anyone and make some kind of case though. (Look at Cross) After all, in that kind of area, it’s hardly unlikely that we couldn’t find men from broken homes who, experienced childhood trauma and/or abuse, experienced/took part in violence/crime from a young age, were hard drinkers and weren’t averse to being violent to women. Come to think of it Barnaby, the streets must have been rife with potential serial killers.

[Barnaby]

I agree that you can pick almost anyone and make some kind of case though. (Look at Cross) After all, in that kind of area, it’s hardly unlikely that we couldn’t find men from broken homes who, experienced childhood trauma and/or abuse, experienced/took part in violence/crime from a young age, were hard drinkers and weren’t averse to being violent to women. Come to think of it Barnaby, the streets must have been rife with potential serial killers.

Dear God, they are all guilty!

[John Wheat]

I still think the Ripper was Bury and if not Bury then Kelly or someone like him. Or am I an idiot for suspecting the Ripper was a violent murderer and not a random witness?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I still think the Ripper was Bury and if not Bury then Kelly or someone like him. Or am I an idiot for suspecting the Ripper was a violent murderer and not a random witness?

If we simply look at the named suspects John and consider the likeliest type of person to have been a serial killer then I’d suggest that Bury, Kelly etc have to be up at the top of any list. There’s not enough to cast the final ‘guilty’ vote for anyone imo and there will always be reasons why some don’t rate him. The problem is that the differences in Ellen’s murder can be cited but another way of looking at it is - yes, she was his wife so might it not be understandable why there are differences? His reason for murdering her would have been different to the ripper victims. Another explanation might be that he wasn’t the ripper of course. That he can be placed on the same level as someone like Cross is like placing a builder who wolf whistles a woman on the same level as Ted Bundy.

[Abby Normal]

I still think the Ripper was Bury and if not Bury then Kelly or someone like him. Or am I an idiot for suspecting the Ripper was a violent murderer and not a random witness?

I got bury and Kelly #1 and 3, but I also have random witness hutch #2, so maybe I’m the idiot lol

[c.d.]

Is there some sort of once a witness always a witness rule?

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Is there some sort of once a witness always a witness rule?

c.d.

No c.d. but there are times when I think that there should be.