Time poll

[Michael W Richards]

Liz Stride is seen in front of the club at 12:35.
Fanny Mortimer goes indoors for a few minutes.-Approx 12:38
Eagle arrives.
Louis arrives.-Approx 12:40
Goes indoors to see his wife and call for assitance-12:41
Issac K and Heshberg and others are called to the passageway: Approx 12:41-42
Issac is sent for help-Approx 12:45-46
Louis and Issacs go for help-Approx 12:45-46
Eagle goes for help-Approx 12:47
Louis and Issacs return with Spooner-Approx 12:50-12:52
Fanny comes back to her door-Approx 12:53-54
Fanny sees Leon-Approx 12:55-56
Eagle is seen by Lamb-Approx 12:55-1:00am
Eagle, Lamb and Issac K arrive back at the gates: 1:01-1:03.
Eagle goes to notify the station-1:03
Johnson gets a call-Approx 1:05
Johnson arrives at the scene-Approx 1:10

Allowing some leeway by a few minutes here or there doesnt bother me, but suggesting that Louis did arrive at 1 like he claimed means that all the other witnesses were off by 10 minutes or so.

Louis....and his club minions backing his claim....or everyone else. With nothing to lose or gain.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Diemshitz said a lot of things......for example he said it too "20 minutes" from the time a constable arrived until a doctor arrived, well, it actually took 10 minutes. The point that you dont address each time you are reminded of the facts is that this isnt a theory of mine, its not some concoction of subjectively adjusted witness timings that you embrace so thoroughly, its not a hypothetical scenario...its just using direct quotes from witnesses and being able to reconstruct a timeline from them. With using Louis as the "trustworthy" witness, all subsequent times given by other witnesses are incorrect by at least 10 minutes. But without an arrival at "precisely" 1am, those subsequent witness times work perfectly fine. That arrival time, as youve been told ad infinitum, is already provably incorrect. yet you argue for it. Takes all kinds.

And those subsequent witnesses happen to be a constable, a doctors assistant, and 2 physicians, all of who needed to track and record the times and events as part of their jobs. By far the accounts that are the most trustworthy of any witness accounts of that crime scene.

Please stop fabricating what people actually say, or characterize it more honestly. Your pontificating about how many people side with you and how I am somehow creating evidence rather than merely reciting it does nothing to enhance your own reputation, if thats what you think you do. Because, unlike you, most people are able to read, to honestly acquiesce to more factual and reasonable arguments provided by others, and to use the facts in the arguments given against them to counter objections. You mishandle truth Herlock. It’s why your opinion of yourself is greater than the content of your rebuttal.

How can you possibly make the claim that’s emboldened above when it’s simply untrue. We have produced several timelines. Jeff has done timelines in the last 24 hours using variations in walking speeds and ALL of them fit. Not one requires moving times by 10 minutes or more. This is simply a case of your 3 star witnesses. You assume them to be correct and every other witness to have been wrong. Then to make things ‘fit’ you massively exaggerate how Diemschitz and so spent in the yard. On the other thread you even suggested the possibility that it could have been 15 or 20 minutes!!

Louis found the body at approx 1.00. Everything fits like a glove from there.

[Herlock Sholmes]

And how long did the search for help take? Maybe 5 minutes? None of the men found help immediately. Add those numbers to a stated arrival time of "precisely" 1am. Now, what time would Eagle have to have left the yard to be able to meet up with Lamb at around 1am? I cant believe I have to point out over and over that the initial discovery time must be 5-10 minutes before the time Lamb shows up with Eagle.

Because we don’t need to keep hearing you repeating the same falsehood. Why would the search take 5 minutes? Look at the distances and walking/running times.

Now, what time would Eagle have to have left the yard to be able to meet up with Lamb at around 1am?

Do you realise what you’re doing Michael? You must do, surely?

AROUND 1am isn’t 1am. ABOUT 1am isn’t 1am. These aren’t times. They are approximations of times.

So around one would include 1.05 or 1.06. Please show us that you get this point because up until know you give the impression that you don’t. You keep posting as if ‘around 1.00’ means 1.00.

If Diemschitz said 1.00 and Lamb said ‘around 1.00’ you cannot use one to dismiss the other because they aren’t necessarily the same.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Liz Stride is seen in front of the club at 12:35.

Fanny Mortimer goes indoors for a few minutes.-Approx 12:38

Even though Fanny Mortimer never once mentions going back indoors before that time…or. Ring on her doorstep for that matter.

Eagle arrives.

Louis arrives.-Approx 12:40

Unseen or heard by anyone…horse and cart in ‘stealth mode.’

Goes indoors to see his wife and call for assitance-12:41

Disputed by Eagle, Gilleman, Mrs Diemschitz, Mila, Julius Minsky and no doubt all of the others that they interviewed except for Kozebrodsky and Heschberg (who were part of the plot but appear to have forgotten that the entire plot was based around lying the Louis found the body at 1.00. DOH!

Issac K and Heshberg and others are called to the passageway: Approx 12:41-42

Waiting for the body to arrive?

Issac is sent for help-Approx 12:45-46

But his calls for help are unheard until 15 minutes later by Brown. Spooky.

Louis and Issacs go for help-Approx 12:45-46

Despite the fact that we know that Kozebrodsky was commonly known as Isaacs. Where does this separate/mystery Isaacs go?

Eagle goes for help-Approx 12:47

13 minutes before he’s told about the murder by Gilleman.

Louis and Issacs return with Spooner-Approx 12:50-12:52

So you say that it’s unreasonable for me to suggest that Heschberg and Kozebrodsky were wrong by 15 or 20 minutes but apparently it’s absolutely acceptable for you to suggest that Spooner was wrong by 15-17 minutes (he said that he arrived at the yard at 12.35.) Talk about ‘one rule for one…’

Fanny comes back to her door-Approx 12:53-54

So your last mention of Fanny was her going indoors at 12.38. Now she’s back on her doorstep 15 or 16 minutes later. How do you work that out? And how can it be claimed that she was on her doorstep for most of the time between 12.30 and 1.00 when you’ve just had her indoors for half that time.

Fanny sees Leon-Approx 12:55-56

A part that I won’t dispute even.

Eagle is seen by Lamb-Approx 12:55-1:00am

So from Louis finding the body at 12.40 Eagle gets to Lamb 20 minutes later?! Did he stop off for a cup of tea? You gave Fanny on her doorstep from 12.53/12.54 so why didn’t she see Eagle pass? Why didn’t Miss Letchford see him either?

Eagle, Lamb and Issac K arrive back at the gates: 1:01-1:03.

So Spooner’s 5 minutes before Lamb was 10 minutes not 5? But you said that Isaac was sent for help at 12.45/6. So where had he been for the last 15 minutes?

Eagle goes to notify the station-1:03
Johnson gets a call-Approx 1:05
Johnson arrives at the scene-Approx 1:10

Allowing some leeway by a few minutes here or there doesnt bother me, but suggesting that Louis did arrive at 1 like he claimed means that all the other witnesses were off by 10 minutes or so.

Louis....and his club minions backing his claim....or everyone else. With nothing to lose or gain.

Nope, you aren’t being allowed your ‘get out clause.’ We’re not having ‘they were plotters so they lied.’ You have to prove that they were plotters first and you can’t do that.

Well Michael you’ve answered my question at last. Now I know why you weren’t keen to publish a timeline. Give up.