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The Stride Murder

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  • Originally posted by c.d. View Post

    Exactly.

    c.d.
    When 4d can buy you a bed and keep you off the street, money doesn't have to be "life changing" to change their life on a given night.

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    • I don't understand the point you are trying to make, Michael. She might have been on a date. She might have been cleaning. She might have been handing out Bible tracks. Doesn't matter. It is a moot point. Jack would have no way of knowing why she was out and it is reasonable to assume she might have been soliciting. So he approaches her.

      c.d.

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      • Its very revealing seeing some comments from posters, clearly the stereotypical broad stroke assumptions are what makes one susceptible to seeing ghosts when there are none.

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        • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

          When 4d can buy you a bed and keep you off the street, money doesn't have to be "life changing" to change their life on a given night.
          "Given night" being key here. Unfortunately for Liz there was the next night and the night after that and so on.

          c.d.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by c.d. View Post

            "Given night" being key here. Unfortunately for Liz there was the next night and the night after that and so on.

            c.d.
            It's not only that C.D, but Liz's mates were living the same life. The people she'd bonded with in a miserable existence. That's more or less all she had to look forward to and so that was where she was going to spend a few extra pennies.

            Michael's imagining a scenario where Liz didn't have form for being up in court for being boozed up to the eye-balls, didn't live in a hovel, didn't have mates who like her spent what spare pennies they had in the pub; had joined the temperance movement, and a few extra pennies meant she was transformed with virtually no motivation to do that, considering the hovel she lived in and that she wasn't going anywhere any time soon.

            In fact, we are told Liz was in the pub at half 6 that night and hadn't paid for her bed.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
              I don't understand the point you are trying to make, Michael. She might have been on a date. She might have been cleaning. She might have been handing out Bible tracks. Doesn't matter. It is a moot point. Jack would have no way of knowing why she was out and it is reasonable to assume she might have been soliciting. So he approaches her.

              c.d.
              And for all that we know her killer might have previously seen her soliciting and recognised her when he saw her. If she told him that she was actually waiting for someone he might have thought “yeah right,” and felt rejected, resulting in anger kicking in. Whether he was the ripper or not. We have no way of knowing. I don’t understand how someone can be so certain that this wasn’t a ripper murder?
              Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 08-29-2023, 07:25 PM.
              Regards

              Sir Herlock Sholmes.

              “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post

                These people were desperate. Their lives were miserable and harsh. Whatever money they earned was boozed away in an attempt to forget their woes and just have a bit of excitement in their lives.

                In my opinion, it is highly unlikely that somebody in Liz's position was spending money on cachous, and we know Liz appreciated a good old booze up. In fact, at the inquest, we are told that Liz was in the pub at half 6 on the Saturday night before the Saturday night/Sunday morning when she was murdered. There's an indication that Liz with money in her back pocket is Liz in the pub.

                In the event Liz didn't buy those cachous, and I doubt very much she did; then someone gave them to her. It's reasonable to think that Liz would have taken one of those cachous out of the wrapper when given to her, except she didn't; the wrapper was unopened.

                That tells me that Liz was attacked in that short time between being given the cachous and looking down to get one out.

                There is a lot to explain after that, but that simply means the other lot to explain is not easily explained. It doesn't at all detract from what looks likely in terms of the cachous and the swift attack.

                To answer your question: in my opinion Schwartz and associates were not part of this event, it's an entirely different attack in nature. Amicable right up until the point when Liz didn't know what hit her and she didn't see it coming.
                You could certainly be right about Liz being given the cachous but isn’t it possible that she’d been given them earlier in the day or even the previous day and just before she was attacked she’d taken them out of her pocket to have one?

                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                  Its very revealing seeing some comments from posters, clearly the stereotypical broad stroke assumptions are what makes one susceptible to seeing ghosts when there are none.
                  A serial killer isn’t a ghost. Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly were clearly killed by the same man. The odds against Chapman and Eddowes being killed by 2 different men must be astronomical.
                  Regards

                  Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                  “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                  Comment


                  • Hi Michael!

                    What would a woman like Stride do after an attack (maybe an "attempted robbery") like this if BS Man was not her killer?

                    She was murdered in the yard a few minutes later, so she went with her killer into the yard shortly after she was attacked at the gates of the yard.

                    Inside the mind of Stride I would have leave this place immediately afterwards. However, it did not happen. If BS Man was not the killer, her killer approached her immediately after BS Man went away. There was no time to leave the place. Iīm not sure whether Stride had sex that night but I guess she need some money now, money for the Doss House at Flower and Dean Street ("as soon as possible back to the Lodging House after this evening" were, maybe, her thoughts?). I can imagine she did not expect to get some money there where she was attacked, rather somewhere else.

                    It is possible that "Pipeman" returned, she the one who addressed him to get some money. There was no need to say: Letīs go elsewhere! This was the place where she had met him before (maybe the couple Brown had seen), the man who gave her the cachous. A man who flet with another man (Schwartz) when she was attacked by BS Man. A coward, harmless, would never harm a fly, an "easy victim". She felt safe, not guessing that she was the easy victim.

                    It might be that the killer realised, after killing her: "this is not the situation I prefer, I donīt feel comfortable, it feels wrong, this is not my territory, I have to fix it" and went away, not interrupted by someone else.

                    Any thoughts?

                    Karsten.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                      You could certainly be right about Liz being given the cachous but isn’t it possible that she’d been given them earlier in the day or even the previous day and just before she was attacked she’d taken them out of her pocket to have one?
                      'Very much possible. I'm working on the premise that it is unlikely that chachous was on the agenda for those people, including Liz's regular clients and it follows most of the people she bumped into.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                        A serial killer isn’t a ghost. Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly were clearly killed by the same man. The odds against Chapman and Eddowes being killed by 2 different men must be astronomical.
                        Too much emphasis is placed on minor details. We know from the experience of serial killers that they do not followed rigid rules and they do not even use the same weapons at times.

                        The wise money to me is that Liz was murdered by Jack and there were more than 5.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post

                          Too much emphasis is placed on minor details. We know from the experience of serial killers that they do not followed rigid rules and they do not even use the same weapons at times.

                          The wise money to me is that Liz was murdered by Jack and there were more than 5.
                          yup I got millwood, tabram,the c5 and probably mackenzie
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                            yup I got millwood, tabram,the c5 and probably mackenzie
                            No Frances?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post

                              'Very much possible. I'm working on the premise that it is unlikely that chachous was on the agenda for those people, including Liz's regular clients and it follows most of the people she bumped into.
                              You have got me confused here, Mac. I was under the impression these were penny candy. Is that not correct?

                              Can somebody help us with the price?

                              c.d.

                              Comment


                              • What would a woman like Stride do after an attack (maybe an "attempted robbery") like this if BS Man was not her killer?

                                My guess would be do nothing. If it was just a little street hassle (and I think it was) it was par for the course. A woman soliciting in Whitechapel who called it a night at the first drop of rain would starve to death.

                                c.d.

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