Can't get past Maxwell

[MrBarnett]

Her husband Henry was deputy at the lodging house next door,owned by William Crossingham of Romford.
Same place Hutchinson allegedly stood in front of while surveilling Millers Court.

Are we sure which lodging house it was?

Crossingham had been born in Romford, and returned there around 1899, but there’s no evidence had any any connection to it in 1888.

[etenguy]

Sorry my digitizer is cream crackered...as such I shall try responding later. Again really sorry, what I had to say wasn't earth shattering so not to worry lol.
Helen x

Hi Helen

Sorry to hear that - look forward to hearing more from you when the equipment is less temperamental

.

[MrBarnett]

Odd then that on the 10 Nov she was reported as saying;
" I didn't know then that she had separated from the man she had been living with, and I thought he had been "paying" her."

and;

"I had no idea she was an unfortunate, for I never saw her with any one, nor have I ever seen her drunk."

It only makes sense if she meant that she had only discovered that Barnett had left and Kelly had returned to her old occupation after she had seen her.

[Parisi North Humber]

Sorry my digitizer is cream crackered...as such I shall try responding later. Again really sorry, what I had to say wasn't earth shattering so not to worry lol.
Helen x

[etenguy]

lol yup-what a goat rope this is!

Hi Abby

That's a new phrase for me, so something good from this thread.

I think most people posting on this thread are content that Maxwell did not mistake the time and date and did not mistake the person she spoke to. But we are now left with three options between us.

i Maxwell lied
ii Kelly was murdered close to 9.00am (my preferred option)
iii It was someone other than Kelly who was murdered.

I know you are suspicious of Hutchinson, but a later time of death would make him a lesser figure in this crime.

[Parisi North Humber]

Sorry my digitizer Haas

[Parisi North Humber]

Hi Eten et Al, as to Barnett's identification of the woman known as MJK (stating it this way to keep all theorists ha

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby.

Prater and Maxwell both attended the inqiest though, so surely Maxwell would have realised her mistake at that point had she originally thought Prater was Mary?

It's all a conundrum for sure!

lol yup-what a goat rope this is!

[Joshua Rogan]

It’s also odd that she claimed not to have seen Kelly for 3 weeks and yet was able to tell the police that she had been an unfortunate since Barnett had left her.

Odd then that on the 10 Nov she was reported as saying;
" I didn't know then that she had separated from the man she had been living with, and I thought he had been "paying" her."

and;

"I had no idea she was an unfortunate, for I never saw her with any one, nor have I ever seen her drunk."

[DJA]

Well, in Maxwell's own words she spoke to Mary twice in the 10 months Mary lived in Miller's Court. 'Seems at odds with the familiarity of exchange Maxwell described and knowing Mary from 'being about in the lodging house'. Presumably they missed one another in the same lodging house for the first 6 months Mary lived in Miller's Court.

I'm not wholly convinced Hutchinson was the man stood in Dorset Street opposite Miller's Court. Sarah Lewis claimed the man was looking into Miller's Court as Lewis entered the court, yet Hutchinson detailed the people he saw in the street and Lewis wasn't one of them. 'Not quite sure how Hutchinson could have missed Lewis going into the court as he was looking into the court.

I think the person looking into the court wasn't Hutchinson. I tend to think Lewis is more likely to have been right simply because her story could have been verified by the person Lewis went to stay with in Miller's Court, whereas nobody could vouch for Hutchinson being there.

Whoosh.

[c.d.]

And by extension, that would mean the real Mary Kelly would be found alive & well in the 1891 census. Which is exactly what we find.

But then we have to assume that she made her planned getaway with no money, no suitcase and no clothes or somehow found a way around those problems. It also requires that Barnett could not correctly identify the woman with whom he shared a bed.

Mary Kelly is a common name so it is not surprising that it turns up in the census but that doesn't mean it is the same Mary Kelly we are interested in. Also, if she had fled Whitechapel to start a new life why give her correct name in the census?

Could it have been another woman's body in the room? Absolutely, but just how probable is it is the question. I have to go with Occam's Razor on this one. It was Kelly in that room.

c.d.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Her husband Henry was deputy at the lodging house next door,owned by William Crossingham of Romford.
Same place Hutchinson allegedly stood in front of while surveilling Millers Court.

Well, in Maxwell's own words she spoke to Mary twice in the 10 months Mary lived in Miller's Court. 'Seems at odds with the familiarity of exchange Maxwell described and knowing Mary from 'being about in the lodging house'. Presumably they missed one another in the same lodging house for the first 6 months Mary lived in Miller's Court.

I'm not wholly convinced Hutchinson was the man stood in Dorset Street opposite Miller's Court. Sarah Lewis claimed the man was looking into Miller's Court as Lewis entered the court, yet Hutchinson detailed the people he saw in the street and Lewis wasn't one of them. 'Not quite sure how Hutchinson could have missed Lewis going into the court as he was looking into the court.

I think the person looking into the court wasn't Hutchinson. I tend to think Lewis is more likely to have been right simply because her story could have been verified by the person Lewis went to stay with in Miller's Court, whereas nobody could vouch for Hutchinson being there.

[DJA]

Caroline Maxwell lived at 14 Dorset Street, which was opposite Miller's Court.

Her husband Henry was deputy at the lodging house next door,owned by William Crossingham of Romford.
Same place Hutchinson allegedly stood in front of while surveilling Millers Court.

[MrBarnett]

you mean twice in Four months?

anyway knowing someone for four months and speaking to them twice dosnt really seem like she knew her that well, especially if mary had lived their for six months prior(without maxwell knowing about her) and ten months total. again I ask-did she mistake prater for Mary?

It’s also odd that she claimed not to have seen Kelly for 3 weeks and yet was able to tell the police that she had been an unfortunate since Barnett had left her.

[Ms Diddles]

yes some have posited in the past that maxwell thought Prater was Kelly

Hi Abby.

Prater and Maxwell both attended the inqiest though, so surely Maxwell would have realised her mistake at that point had she originally thought Prater was Mary?

It's all a conundrum for sure!