John Richardson

[Fleetwood Mac]

Which old thread?

The wicked old thread,
And through the town the joyous news was spread,
It's gone where the wicked threads go below, below, below, yo ho,
Let's open up and sing, and ring the bells out,
Ding-dong! the merry-o sing it high, sing it low,
Let them know the wicked thread is dead!

[Herlock Sholmes]

So when you claim something has been explained we should just except it ? Is that how it works?

You have also had things explained that you won't except . So I think we need not bother going down that path.

We have a choice now between two modern day medical experts , thats what being debated , fishermans detailed post allows that. Clearly .

No we don’t. You haven’t read and assessed Fisherman’s post properly. You’ve only heard what you wanted to hear and you’re not alone in that. Thiblin said was if certain criteria had been met by Phillips then it might have pointed to an earlier TOD. They weren’t achieved though Fishy…..and that’s the point.

Thiblin was told Phillips had put his hand inside the abdominal cavity - which is not in the evidence.
Thiblin was told the surface of the body was all cold - which is not in the evidence.
Thiblin apparently used the ‘rule of thumb’ that allows that the body loses 1.5 degrees per hour after death yet all of the experts in the field say that this is inaccurate.

Thiblin admitted that a body can feel cold within an hour. That’s all that we needed to know from him.

Biggs said:

"Even if core body temperature and ambient temperature had been objectively measured at the time, any calculations would still give an estimation that would necessarily spread far wider than the “two hours or more ago” estimate quoted... I would have to say that this particular victim could have died considerably more than 2 hours before discovery, but also could potentially have been killed as recently as 05.30".

And these are only the two that we’re talking about Chapman. If you wanted other Forensic experts that tell us that Phillips TOD cannot be relied upon as accurate then I could post you thousands. In fact I’d challenge anyone to find a single one that disagrees.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Of course this is just " sour grapes , accusing people of manipulation and dishonesty is the act of desperation.
phases such as " the whole of the medical community " when it has been shown medical experts agree with Dr Phillips estimate is more sour grapes and turning a blind eye to such evidence.

As for 3 witnesses that also has been shown to be unreliable and contradictory by George great post 1320. How their testimony can be honestly judged "overwhelming" is extraordinary brave by anyone.

Of we know that witnesses can be dishonest , but it not their dishonesty that in question as much as the uncertainty and contradictions that allowes for debate for an earlier t.od.

All in all I think many sensible unbiased posters also favour an earlier t.o.d. .

Fishy you clearly don’t understand what was being said when it comes to the medical evidence. Every post that you make proves this.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You mean you're scarpering when your nonsense was exposed.

I respond to the points made George. Whereas you (now that your Mr. Nice Guy mask has slipped - as spotted a while ago by Abby) appear just want to keep having little digs. I’ve discussed in detail Fisherman’s post pertaining to Thiblin. And I mean in detail. You and Fishy are reduced to simply saying “well it sounds good to me.” Basically cheerleading.

Im the only one on hear trying to debate the detail amid a chorus of bleating.

[Fleetwood Mac]

The wicked thread has risen indeed!
When the wicked thread rose, a new creation began
for all who believe and trust in God’s plans.
Through his power, our darkness is rolled away–
“The wicked thread is the light,” his resurrection proclaims!

[DJA]

No it isn't!

[FISHY1118]

No we don’t. Who are these experts? Please post the quotes where they agree with Phillips.

Pay attention go over the Fisherman post. its been discussed already

[FISHY1118]

Fishy you clearly don’t understand what was being said when it comes to the medical evidence. Every post that you make proves this.

Yer yer yer the old you dont understand bit , save it herlock, your just going over the same ground thats been cover before over 3000 post . please stop asking for information that you have clearly rejected the first time around.

We all know what your post prove ,...... Nothing , you have speculation , conjecture , and opinion just as the evidence allowes. we all do, or havent you cottoned on to that part yet ?

[FISHY1118]

No we don’t. You haven’t read and assessed Fisherman’s post properly. You’ve only heard what you wanted to hear and you’re not alone in that. Thiblin said was if certain criteria had been met by Phillips then it might have pointed to an earlier TOD. They weren’t achieved though Fishy…..and that’s the point.

Thiblin was told Phillips had put his hand inside the abdominal cavity - which is not in the evidence.
Thiblin was told the surface of the body was all cold - which is not in the evidence.
Thiblin apparently used the ‘rule of thumb’ that allows that the body loses 1.5 degrees per hour after death yet all of the experts in the field say that this is inaccurate.

Thiblin admitted that a body can feel cold within an hour. That’s all that we needed to know from him.

Biggs said:

"Even if core body temperature and ambient temperature had been objectively measured at the time, any calculations would still give an estimation that would necessarily spread far wider than the “two hours or more ago” estimate quoted... I would have to say that this particular victim could have died considerably more than 2 hours before discovery, but also could potentially have been killed as recently as 05.30".

And these are only the two that we’re talking about Chapman. If you wanted other Forensic experts that tell us that Phillips TOD cannot be relied upon as accurate then I could post you thousands. In fact I’d challenge anyone to find a single one that disagrees.

Herlock, Fisherman has already reply to your post regarding this, im more than happy with his responses, ive read all the post he and you went over regarding Thiblin. Proof Dr Phillps can no longer be ignorged where debating t.od. is concerned .

[FISHY1118]

Now see what you've done Fishy

Sorry DJA couldnt be helped . Dont blame me he was the one that said he was leaving, it clear he has nothing new to add to the topic everything that is being asked now has been asked and answered over 3000 post already .So one can only Imagine there is other motives at play here . , But hey, no big deal maybe we can break the post record sometime next year if this nonsense keeps regurgitating over and over again.


.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Pay attention go over the Fisherman post. its been discussed already

And refuted. You clearly don’t understand it Fishy. That’s why you won’t discuss the detail.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Herlock, Fisherman has already reply to your post regarding this, im more than happy with his responses, ive read all the post he and you went over regarding Thiblin. Proof Dr Phillps can no longer be ignorged where debating t.od. is concerned .

Rubbish.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Ok, let’s see if we get an answer….

What does Thiblin mean by "an obvious difference between the outer and central parts of the body"? In other words, if the outer parts of the body feel cold, what type of difference between that and the central parts of the body would be needed to allow an estimated PMI of 3 or 4 hours? After all, if a body has been dead for one hour, but feels cold, there is undoubtedly going to be an obvious difference between the skin temperature and the core temperature. The skin temperature will be cold and the core temperature will be warm. That's an "obvious difference"! But it's still consistent with a 1 hour PMI. So how do we get to 3-4 hours? Does he mean that the core temperature should be cold too after 3-4 hours? But then that's not an "obvious difference", that's a similarity! And all the experts say that the core should still be warm after 3-4 hours. So, while one could understand that he might be saying that it's possible to estimate the time of death after 3-4 hours from the core temperature, if the core temperature is not as warm as it would be expected to be from a shorter PMI, that still doesn't explain the words "obvious difference".

What was Thiblin talking about? Does anyone know? Or should we just write it off as nonsense?

Did Thiblin also think that Phillips had said that there was only "a little warmth" in the central parts of the body? Is THAT misunderstanding of the evidence what led him to his conclusion?

[FISHY1118]

And refuted. You clearly don’t understand it Fishy. That’s why you won’t discuss the detail.

Why, its been discussed herlock, cant you see that you and Fisherman went at it for days . Your the one that has the problem with it not me , take it up with him . Now do you have anything new or not ?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Herlock, Fisherman has already reply to your post regarding this, im more than happy with his responses, ive read all the post he and you went over regarding Thiblin. Proof Dr Phillps can no longer be ignorged where debating t.od. is concerned .

Simple question then Fishy.

Do you disagree with this statement from Dr. Biggs?

"Even if core body temperature and ambient temperature had been objectively measured at the time, any calculations would still give an estimation that would necessarily spread far wider than the “two hours or more ago” estimate quoted... I would have to say that this particular victim could have died considerably more than 2 hours before discovery, but also could potentially have been killed as recently as 05.30.”

And could you explain why Biggs was wrong?

I’ll be amazed if you respond to this.