John Richardson

[Herlock Sholmes]

Does anyone recall which of No. 29's residents was a carman? According to a newspaper quoted in a new Richard Jones video, there was one...



M.

This is from the Wiki JTR section:

“The second floor front room contained a family consisting of a carman named Thompson who worked at Goodson's in Brick Lane”

I don’t know if we know any more about him than that though?

Debra Arif mentions the company here though:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-...686#post441686

And there’s a thread on the Goodson family:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/ripper-trivia/10801-the-goodson-family#post10801

[FISHY1118]

The fact is though George, that we have a thread where a Mount Everest of evidence has been provided to show that ''witness testimony'' cannot be relied upon. It might or might not have been accurate but we’ve had page after page after page of people desperately disputing this in an attempt to skew the evidence in the witnesses favour when it’s simply impossible to do so. Most have now accepted this but resistance is still occurring

Sorry George but i just had too , i know ill probably cop the hit for it .


But ill say it again, Just because the Drs estimate is considered unreliabe, this does not ''Prove'' the witnesses right just so one can say 5.30am must of been the t.o.d of the Chapman murder ,it just doesnt work that way .

No amount of polls ,caveats or othwise will ever ever change this fact.

So lets go round and round the merry go round again for another month and get the same result shall we.

Heres a clue , ive admitted Phillips ,some just have to admit the witnesses, then its old done . Simple.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Just because the Drs estimate is considered unreliable

In the absence of anything new and refreshing on the minimum time possible, I am very interested in what experts in the field had to say about Dr Phillips' estimate (verbatim as opposed to interpreted).

I've looked around online and can't find anything in relation to this, so if you or anyone else can point me in the right direction that would be appreciated.

[FISHY1118]

In the absence of anything new and refreshing on the minimum time possible, I am very interested in what experts in the field had to say about Dr Phillips' estimate (verbatim as opposed to interpreted).

I've looked around online and can't find anything in relation to this, so if you or anyone else can point me in the right direction that would be appreciated.

Well if you find something im sure this thread would like to see it

[Fleetwood Mac]

Well if you find something im sure this thread would like to see it

'Can't find anything. 'No expert who has looked specifically at Dr Phillips' situation, i.e. his window of time supposedly examining a body dead for 1 hour.

'Shame. It would be interesting to know what the experts state. It seems we have no evidence to suggest the experts in the field believe Dr Phillips' estimate is unreliable.

[FISHY1118]

'Can't find anything. 'No expert who has looked specifically at Dr Phillips' situation, i.e. his window of time supposedly examining a body dead for 1 hour.

'Shame. It would be interesting to know what the experts state. It seems we have no evidence to suggest the experts in the field believe Dr Phillips' estimate is unreliable.

Well its an interesting point you have raised, up untill now i dont think anyone has looked it that way .Its alway just been suggested that modern medical experts tell us victorian doctors t.o.d. estimates are either just ''guesswork'' and unreliable and must be treated as such because they say so .

But i must say your suggestion bares consideration too.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Well its an interesting point you have raised, up untill now i dont think anyone has looked it that way .Its alway just been suggested that modern medical experts tell us victorian doctors t.o.d. estimates are either just ''guesswork'' and unreliable and must be treated as such because they say so .

But i must say your suggestion bares consideration too.

On any given commentary on estimating TOD, it is stated that an exact time simply cannot be relied upon. I accept this, although I would add that these comments are considering PMIs generally far in excess of Dr Phillips' PMI.

Dr Phillips gave us a window of time (not an exact time) upon viewing a body supposedly dead for 1 hour, however.

[Herlock Sholmes]

'Can't find anything. 'No expert who has looked specifically at Dr Phillips' situation, i.e. his window of time supposedly examining a body dead for 1 hour.

'Shame. It would be interesting to know what the experts state. It seems we have no evidence to suggest the experts in the field believe Dr Phillips' estimate is unreliable.

Really?

We can find no modern day expert that specifically comments on one specific Victorian murder - what a surprise.

But we have a profusion of experts telling us that TOD estimation was unreliable. Only you appear to believe that Phillips was somehow an exception and needs analysing separately. I’m afraid that’s not the case. He was subject to the same judgment as all medical knowledge at the time has been. If TOD estimate was unreliable (and it was) then it was unreliable for Phillips too.

This issue doesn’t need discussion. The only reasonable response to - TOD estimation for Victorian doctor’s was unreliable and prone to error, is - ok. (With no more being said)

Any ‘yes but’s’ is an attempt at manipulation.

Phillips can and should be disregarded entirely and without a second thought. It’s the only honest approach.

[Herlock Sholmes]

On any given commentary on estimating TOD, it is stated that an exact time simply cannot be relied upon. I accept this, although I would add that these comments are considering PMIs generally far in excess of Dr Phillips' PMI.

Dr Phillips gave us a window of time (not an exact time) upon viewing a body supposedly dead for 1 hour, however.

And Jeff has shown that a TOD of 5.20-5.30 is still within an acceptable error range. Whichever way you look at it, from whatever angle, the Doctor cannot be used to dismiss witnesses. And that is all that matters.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well if you find something im sure this thread would like to see it

Yes, let’s see if we can find a modern day forensic expert who will look at the evidence and then stand up and say that Dr Phillips was likely to have been correct in his estimate range and that the chances of Chapman dying at around 5.20-5.25 are very, very unlikely or even very likely or even likely.

We may have a very, very, very, very long wait.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Perhaps someone can tell me - what use is a Doctors evidence (using modern expertise) that tells us, at best, that Phillips might have been correct or that he might have been wrong. Where does that get us?

So I’ll say it again, Phillips is of no use to us.

[Joshua Rogan]

This is from the Wiki JTR section:

“The second floor front room contained a family consisting of a carman named Thompson who worked at Goodson's in Brick Lane”

I don’t know if we know any more about him than that though?

Debra Arif mentions the company here though:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/the-...686#post441686

And there’s a thread on the Goodson family:

https://www.jtrforums.com/forum/ripp...mily#post10801

John Davis was also a carman.

[Herlock Sholmes]

John Davis was also a carman.

Thanks Joshua, I forgot about the obvious one.

[Mark J D]

John Davis was also a carman.

Thanks!

M.

[Mark J D]

This is from the Wiki JTR section: [etc]

Thanks! Most interesting!

M.