John Richardson

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

Here is the report I was to which I was referring:

Star Sep 8:
THE LEATHER APRON AND KNIFE.
John Richardson, of 2, John-street, E.C., said to a Star reporter: - I am a porter in Spitalfields Market. I always go round to mother's (Mrs. Richardson, 29, Hanbury-street) on market mornings just to see that everything is right in the back-yard, where her underground packing-case workshops are. The place was burgled a short time back. This morning, as near as I know, it was ten minutes to five o'clock when I entered the backyard of 29. There was nobody there. Of that I am sure. I heard in the market at 6.20 a woman had been found murdered at mother's, and went round and saw the body. The police, by the doctor's order, took possession on my leather apron and knife that were on the premises, and also a box of nails, as well as three pills found near the body.

Unless the police returned his apron and knife, he must have presented a different knife to the coroner. Note the absence of any mention of boot repairs.

Cheers, George

Hello George,

It does say that the apron and knife were ‘…on the premises….’ though and by Richardson’s own words his knife was on his person. Surely the knife that they retained was another knife?

[GBinOz]

Hello George.

Yes, Begg's book is excellent.

When John Davies arrived at the yard, he told the inquest:

"Directly I opened the door I saw a woman lying down in the lefthand recess, between the stone steps and the fence."

When James Kent arrived, he said:

"...standing on the top of the back door steps, I saw a woman lying in the yard between the steps and the partition between the yard and the next."

No-one else seemed to have trouble seeing the body from the top step.

Hi Jon,

To be fair, they were viewing the yard in broad daylight. Begg's point was that Richardson attention was focussed on his task, to his right, detecting the padlock in the gloom. Davis was intent on negotiating the steps to get to the toilet and Kent was there to see a body. Begg also suggested that Richardson could have missed the body even sitting on the steps.

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

This is a screenshot from the photograph in Ripperologist #183



It’s a bit hazy though. The original is much clearer.

[GBinOz]

But they didn’t say ‘from a standing position’ though.

You've got me there Herlock, but they didn't say "from a sitting position" either.

Most likely, left foot on middle step while facing right, crouch down a little, with door closed on backside, to see the padlock, right turn and away. Or Begg's solution, sit on step facing right (with door resting of left shoulder and left knee), repair boot, stand up and turn right and away.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Hello George,

It does say that the apron and knife were ‘…on the premises….’ though and by Richardson’s own words his knife was on his person. Surely the knife that they retained was another knife?

Hi Herlock,

Yes exactly, but the knife he produced afterwards as being on his person wasn't up to either task of boot repair or the mutilation of Chapman. Isn't it a little suspicious that he admitted to owning another knife that was found at the crime scene? Apparently the police didn't think so as it wasn't raised at the inquest (although the apron was, and that was found in the yard), or maybe he slipped up in the Star interview and the police didn't notice. Maybe it was in the padlocked workshop, but I've not seen anywhere that he was asked to unlock the cellar door so it could be searched.

Cheers, George

[Losmandris]

Totally out and I am not particularly advocating this but could the killer and chapman have been 'hiding' (screened by the door) when richardson was sitting on the step. Chapman is then murdered straight after he leaves? Could this help to explain timings?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Totally out and I am not particularly advocating this but could the killer and chapman have been 'hiding' (screened by the door) when richardson was sitting on the step. Chapman is then murdered straight after he leaves? Could this help to explain timings?

Now that’s a new one as far as I’m aware Tristan and it’s not impossible. If they were standing near the door and saw it begin to open they might have quickly ducked behind it up against the wall. If they had been caught by Richardson what else could they have done? Two choices, stood there and then got chucked out or hid behind the door and hoped that the person at the door just crossed the yard to the loo when they could have made they’re escape. Richardson goes back inside though and Chapman is dead before 5.00.

It would kick Cadosch into touch though.

Nice idea though.

[Abby Normal]

heres another one.
richardson lied and really wasnt there because he was slacking off, but lied about it and said he was because he didnt want to get in trouble from his mum for shirking his duties.

far fetched of course, but possible.

if this was the case though i doubt he would have kept digging a hole for himself with all the sitting on steps/ cutting leather from his shoe stuff, especially since it was added later.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

Yes exactly, but the knife he produced afterwards as being on his person wasn't up to either task of boot repair or the mutilation of Chapman. Isn't it a little suspicious that he admitted to owning another knife that was found at the crime scene? Apparently the police didn't think so as it wasn't raised at the inquest (although the apron was, and that was found in the yard), or maybe he slipped up in the Star interview and the police didn't notice. Maybe it was in the padlocked workshop, but I've not seen anywhere that he was asked to unlock the cellar door so it could be searched.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

Its possible though that the knife was found indoors, perhaps in a kitchen area? It’s noticeable that it was taken by the Doctors order so they might have found a large knife indoors and shown it to the Doctor would told them that it was the kind of knife that might have been the murder weapon.

One point about the inquest testimony and the knife (which does appear strange) is that no one at the time appeared to take exception or think them questionable. I’ve always wondered if the transcripts have missed a few words that would have explained things better? By that I mean that perhaps when Richardson explained things verbatim it was much clearer than it might appear to us?

[Herlock Sholmes]

heres another one.
richardson lied and really wasnt there because he was slacking off, but lied about it and said he was because he didnt want to get in trouble from his mum for shirking his duties.

far fetched of course, but possible.

if this was the case though i doubt he would have kept digging a hole for himself with all the sitting on steps/ cutting leather from his shoe stuff, especially since it was added later.

Few things are completely impossible Abby But, as you say, I just don’t think he’d have used the boot/knife excuse. He could have said that he’d gone into the yard to use the loo and that there was no body.

[Abby Normal]

Few things are completely impossible Abby But, as you say, I just don’t think he’d have used the boot/knife excuse. He could have said that he’d gone into the yard to use the loo and that there was no body.

or that he checked the lock to the cellar...so he wouldnt get in trouble with his mum

but yeah agree. undoubtedly he was there and the body wasnt

[Wickerman]

Thats strange george , just under an hour after the murder he didnt mention the boot cutting to Chandler , and later that same day of the murder he also makes no mention of it to the press reporter . One would think he wouldnt have been so distracted the second time around when asked about the murder , just sayin .

Nah, I don't think so Fishy you're not 'just sayin', you're insinuating he made it up.
How on Earth voluntarily placing himself nearer the body (than being on the top step), and admitting he carried a knife, is supposed to be to his benefit, god only knows!!

I'm sure you'll think of something

[Wickerman]

Just a small objection. We don't know for certain when Annie was murdered, or where she was after last being seen shortly before 2AM, just as we don't know where Eddowes was for the half hour after being released from the drunk tank. If we are to consider that Phillip's was wrong with his ToD, then we have to consider he may have been wrong in the other direction (two hours, or more) and that she may have been murdered shortly after 2am, or acquired a client and then spent her earnings in a nice warm pub.

Cheers, George

In that case George, who was it that Cadoche, about 5:30 am?, heard utter, "no", then minutes later something fall against the fence, if the body was already there?

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

To be fair, they were viewing the yard in broad daylight.

True, but light is light, whether its daylight or early morning light.
So long as all parties could see all over the yard, there is no difference between the three of them.

Begg's point was that Richardson attention was focussed on his task, to his right, detecting the padlock in the gloom. Davis was intent on negotiating the steps to get to the toilet and Kent was there to see a body. Begg also suggested that Richardson could have missed the body even sitting on the steps.

Right, I get it, but Paul is not privy to more information than we are.
So, his opinion on what could be seen from that particular angle, is based on what?

[JeffHamm]

Just if i may Jeff, I think its a bit of a stretch to suggest 20 / 30 mins before Dr Phillips examined Chapmans body . Even your rough estimate of 6.55am is for me about too long . As you can see below he examines the body at 6.30am by examine i mean he notices the exact position of the body and the injuries to it , he then searches the yard . I dont see this taking 20/30 mins befor he came back to the body to claim it was cold befor making his estimate t.o.d . The question one would have to ask is why?. .. He would only be putting extra pressure on his own accuracy if he indeed let that 20 mins past while searching the yard . Just an obsevation on my behalf . I think 5/7 mins it was all over and done with .


Mr. George Baxter Phillips, divisional-surgeon of police, said: On Saturday last I was called by the police at 6.20 a.m. to 29, Hanbury-street, and arrived at half-past six. I found the body of the deceased lying in the yard on her back, on the left hand of the steps that lead from the passage. The head was about 6in in front of the level of the bottom step, and the feet were towards a shed at the end of the yard. The left arm was across the left breast, and the legs were drawn up, the feet resting on the ground, and the knees turned outwards. The face was swollen and turned on the right side, and the tongue protruded between the front teeth, but not beyond the lips; it was much swollen. The small intestines and other portions were lying on the right side of the body on the ground above the right shoulder, but attached. There was a large quantity of blood, with a part of the stomach above the left shoulder. I searched the yard and found a small piece of coarse muslin, a small-tooth comb, and a pocket-comb, in a paper case, near the railing. They had apparently been arranged there. I also discovered various other articles, which I handed to the police. The body was cold, except that there was a certain remaining heat, under the intestines, in the body. Stiffness of the limbs was not marked, but it was commencing.

No worries Fishy. We don't know how long it was between his arrival and when he checked, so it's all guess work. I can't say my guess is better or worse than yours, that would take information we don't have but need to consider the ranges of possibilities.

- Jeff