Mrs. Fanny Mortimer, Time wrong?

[DRoy]

Observer,

I could be wrong but I recall reading he sold his trinkets on the weekends. Perhaps someone can confirm.

Why she acknowledged it or why she told hubby about it is speculation. It would be difficult to prove either way but she said it. She didn't lie about Goldstein and since he passed shortly before I don't see why she would lie about hearing Louis arrive. It didn't make her any more important so no reason to lie.

Cheers
DRoy

[Observer]

Hi Observer

Quite...and that's what makes Michael's post interesting too...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave

All of Michael's posts are interesting, most definately

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

He wasn't leaving the club. Mortimer heard him arrive, not leaving

I'd agree Roy. At 1:00 a.m.

Regards

Observer

[Cogidubnus]

clip clop

Yes Roy, but if this was an everyday occurence why on earth would she have noticed, let alone comment on it to her husband? Clearly it was something out of the ordinary...something odd...yes?

All the best

Dave

[DRoy]

Dave & Observer,

Louis had returned to the club to drop off his load. That is when he found Stride. That is what Mortimer heard. Where he parked it, whether he eventually went to George Yard or not, who knows. He wasn't leaving the club. Mortimer heard him arrive, not leaving.

She would have commented to her husband that she heard Louis arrive simply because she heard it. We know Louis did this job so it wouldn't be the first time he made the trip. Since she was able to identify it as Louis then she must be used to him arriving at that time.

Cheers
DRoy

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Observer

Quite...and that's what makes Michael's post interesting too...

All the best

Dave

[Observer]

Hi Dave

Which is exactly what I asked Roy sometime back.

If Mortimer heard Deimschutz lead the pony away to Grorge Yard after finding the body, why then did she not hear him appoach the yard also? She heard the pony and cart once not twice. Deimschutz returned to the yard with his "cheap jewellery" in order to offload it into his house. I doubt he would have stored it in a stable some distance from his house.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Roy

If Horse and Cart activity at that hour wasn't unusual, why on earth would she comment on it to her hubby? It'd surely be just part of the everyday traffic, just as a passing car is to me?

All the best

Dave

[DRoy]

Dave,

She probably wouldn't have remembered it if Stride hadn't been murdered and if she didn't see her body. Remember, she was one of the first to arrive after Stride was found (besides the few from the club). Would it be difficult for her to replay the last 30 minutes in her mind, i'd think it would be fairly accurate.

I don't think it necessary to assume Louis' routine had changed. Mortimer and her keen sense of hearing is all that is needed for her to recognize it as Louis' cart and pony and then mentioning the same to her hubby.

Cheers
DRoy

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Roy

Not knowing it was going to be important, do you suppose she'd have noticed either way? I wouldn't notice if a passing car or lorry was approaching my house or departing...

In any event, clearly the passing of a horse and cart at this hour was so unusual that she commented on it to her husband...interesting...presumably Diemschutz was departing from his usual routine...why?

All the best

Dave

[DRoy]

Michael,

I agree, good question about where he eventually parked it.

I would say he was arriving not leaving when Mortimer heard it. Sound would have tailed off if leaving, get louder as approaching. Mortimer or anyone else should be able to recognize the difference between the two.

Cheers
DRoy

[Cogidubnus]

Now THAT Michael, is a very good question...

Cheers

Dave

[Michael W Richards]

Heres another question...although Im still hoping someone will address the issue of Israels address on Berner Street.

Does anyone recall a mention of Louis's horse and cart being in that yard or passageway, or out on the street, once Spooner, then Johnson arrived? I would imagine that once Louis discovered the body he would then have to make some decision about where to leave his cart and horse before running into find Mrs D in the kitchen. The stables were unused. The passageway is too narrow for that cart and horse and the investigators and bystanders. The street, or the yard seem likely spots. Anyone recall a mention that they were left in either of those places?

My point is,.....did Fanny hear a cart and horse arriving...or being led away to offload the merchandise in its stable on George Yard? Which is probably where Louis should have led his horse before going to Berner Street....so, why did he stop in at the Club when he still had to offload his cart elsewhere?

Best regards

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Roy

I'm certainly not suggesting at this stage that Louis is lying...far from it...I'm literally saying only that she heard a horse and cart go by and commented on it to her husband...We might surmise it was Diemschutz because the timing's about right, (assuming she went back in at 1245 approx), but we don't know...

All the best

Dave

[DRoy]

Dave,

What you've said is possible but unlikely. She knows the sounds of her neighborhood as she lived there for years. She heard the cart and then the commotion at the club so she goes to the scene. If it wasn't Louis' cart then who's was it? Where did the cart go? Is Louis lying then?

Louis is lying just so you can say Mortimer is a bad witness? Come on Dave!

Cheers
DRoy