Jack McCarthy speech on Dorset Street

[Wickerman]

Forgive me for asking the question for I genuinely don't know the complete answer, but is there any evidence apart from Mccarthy himself that Mary owed the rent she was supposed to ?
Or was he a chancer who hoped to get some money back, from one of Mary's relatives who may have come forward , say for instance for the broken door, maybe the window pane or maybe for the general cleaning of the flat of the bloodstains etc

Regards Darryl

That question has been raised in the past, that McCarthy could have been an opportunist, expecting Kelly's family should be coming to her funeral and would likely prefer to settle her debts, why not hike her debt up a bit - who's going to know?

A very legitimate question we may never know the answer to.

[Indian Harry]

Which Mrs. McCarthy, Elizabeth or Mary? Which young son, John Jr. (Steve) or George?

I've since discovered that most sources have Bowyer running to the police station instead of McCarthy's son. The November 10, 1888 issue of the Daily News has some passages that suggest McCarthy's son and wife lived on Dorset Street.

A small general shop in Dorset street adjoins the entrance to the court, tenanted by Mrs. M'Carthy, who also owns the houses in the court.

And elsewhere....

Mrs. M'Carthy with her son went to pay her customary visit for the purpose of collecting the day's rent. Young McCarthy appears to have first sent a man named Bower (sic) to the house, which, though entered from the court, is really a part of No 26 Dorset street. Bower failed to obtain an answer to his knocking, and, looking through the window, saw to his horror the woman lying on the bed in a state of nudity, horribly mutilated. He called McCarthy, who also looked through the window, and seeing that the body was cut about almost beyond recognition, he hurried away with Bower and ran to Commercial street Police Station, where they informed the police.

Full disclosure - there are some factual errors elsewhere in the article and the way it's written makes it hard to differentiate between McCarthy's.

https://casebook.org/press_reports/daily_news/18881110.html

[rjpalmer]

That question has been raised in the past, that McCarthy could have been an opportunist, expecting Kelly's family should be coming to her funeral and would likely prefer to settle her debts, why not hike her debt up a bit - who's going to know?

Joseph Barnett would know, and he would also be the one responsible for the back rent.

It was widely reported that McCarthy was the one who organized Mary Kelly's funeral so she would receive a Roman Catholic burial. That doesn't strike me as the act of someone who was also trying to squeeze a few undeserved shillings out of the dead woman's family.

[The Rookie Detective]

Joseph Barnett would know, and he would also be the one responsible for the back rent.

It was widely reported that McCarthy was the one who organized Mary Kelly's funeral so she would receive a Roman Catholic burial. That doesn't strike me as the act of someone who was also trying to squeeze a few undeserved shillings out of the dead woman's family.

It is my opinion that Kelly was actually related to Jack McCarthy.

And that it was Mccarthy himself, who Kelly was referring to as her relative who was involved in the theatre.

Just a hunch

[Indian Harry]

Which Mrs. McCarthy, Elizabeth or Mary? Which young son, John Jr. (Steve) or George?

My apologies. Earlier I thought your position was that you believed no McCarthy family members lived there. I see now that what specific members and what generation is living there is your main concern.

[Scott Nelson]

My apologies. Earlier I thought your position was that you believed no McCarthy family members lived there. I see now that what specific members and what generation is living there is your main concern.

Actually, my position is that sportsman McCarthy owned the grocer's business at 27 Dorset St. for charitable discount sale of food to the locals, nothing more. There was another guy named John McCarthy living there (possible relationship unknown) who did most of the work keeping the shop for sportsman John and with sportsman John's brother, Daniel, and who was also responsible for collecting rents for the actual owner of Miller's Court.

We have one instance of Bowyer having been asked to collect Mary's rent money and no others. He functioned primarily as Spitalfields McCarthy or Daniel McCarthy's shop assistant.

[seanr]

Can you answer a couple of hypothetical questions I posed in post #53 about McCarthy's family and how they might have got on living there? It seemed like a very crowded place, what with the grocers shop on the ground floor and all the families cramped into small rooms on two upper floors.

Perhaps you're forgetting that 26 & 27 Dorset Street plus Millers Court was let as a single unit.

[Scott Nelson]

I haven't forgotten. #26 was vacant (at the time of the murder). The storeroom in the back of #27 (the side of which ran parallel to MJK's door) was used for grocery supplies. That would leave the upper two floors to house all of the residents and servants (assuming roughly the same number the people were present at any given time). Sportsman McCarthy's wife and daughters, one son, a couple of servants, brother Daniel and his wife, the other John McCarthy and his family. In all, it would seem to have been somewhat crowded for two small floors. And for what? So sportsman John McCarthy could have the privilege of living upstairs from his shop?

Millers Court was also let out as a single unit? As far as I'm aware, it was known locally as McCarthys Rents. McCarthy would have collected rents from the tenants on behalf of the property owner, unless you're saying that McCarthy leased the court from the owner by himself and kept the rents separately.

[Indian Harry]

Actually, my position is that sportsman McCarthy owned the grocer's business at 27 Dorset St. for charitable discount sale of food to the locals, nothing more. There was another guy named John McCarthy living there (possible relationship unknown) who did most of the work keeping the shop for sportsman John and with sportsman John's brother, Daniel, and who was also responsible for collecting rents for the actual owner of Miller's Court.

We have one instance of Bowyer having been asked to collect Mary's rent money and no others. He functioned primarily as Spitalfields McCarthy or Daniel McCarthy's shop assistant.

Do you have an opinion on which John McCarthy attended the Kelly inquest?

[Scott Nelson]

Yes, I think it was the John McCarthy who was born in Spitalfields. His wife, Mary would have assisted with the shop and the rents. And his son, George was probably the one followed him and Bowyer to the police station on the morning of the murder.

[Indian Harry]

Linking this old thread on the multiple McCarthy entries in the 1891 census... started by Chris Scott back in 2010...

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...he-1891-census