Lizzie Prater - intended victim?

[Carrotty Nell]

This is not a new idea. But it hasn't been covered in depth and it intrigues me very much.

c. 1.30 am. Lizzie Prater retires to her room after an unsuccessful wait for her toy boy. She baricades her door with some furniture. She then falls down into a drink-induced sleep at once. Diddles curls up on her mattress.

c. 3.45 am. Lizzie is woken by Diddles who walks on her neck.

c. 3.55 am. Lizzie (and one other witness in the court) hear a cry of 'murder' from Mary Kelly's room below Lizzie's. Note - I'm going by the testimony of Sarah Lewis who heard the Christchurch clock striking 4 very shortly after the alarming cry.

Two things are very striking to me:
1. Lizzie would have been a more typical Ripper victim than MJK because of her more matronly age.
2. Pussycats do not wake in the night unless some noise or someone has disturbed them.

Was it Lizzie Prater the killer was after? Did he mount the stairs to her room and find himself unable to enter because of the baricade? Did the minimal noise he made reach sensitive feline ears but not weaker human ones? Was the killer meanwhile returning downstairs and finding MJK the nearest viable alternative to vent his thwarted rage upon?

[Robert]

Hi Nell

As a hypothesis, this has something to be said for it. I have long felt that Mary's murder was a botched affair, committed by someone who was taken by surprise at finding somebody asleep on a bed right on the other side of the door. But rather than have Jack going upstairs and failing to get into Prater's room, I'd just have someone who took the wrong door and expected to have a flight of stairs to negotiate. Suddenly the door bangs on the bedside table, Mary cries out....the rest, as Richard Nunweek would say, is history.

Alternatively he may simply have been trying to get into the shed, closed shortly before. It was very wet and cold that night. Even murderers have to get out of the rain.

[Damaso Marte]

It was very wet and cold that night. Even murderers have to get out of the rain.

Sounds like the perfect time to sleep naked.

[Edward]

Wrong Door?

Rather an extreme response for entering the wrong door.

Mary: "What are you doing in my room?" "Oh Murder!"

Killer: stab, stab, stab ....

Edward

[Barnaby]

Alternatively he may simply have been trying to get into the shed, closed shortly before. It was very wet and cold that night. Even murderers have to get out of the rain.

This is interesting regardless of whether or not he was trying to gain access to the shed that night. If the Ripper occasionally slept in the shed, he might have been acquaintances with both Kelly (because of proximity) and Eddowes (who Bruce Paley suggested occasionally spent nights there).

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
This theory is not without merit, their were two doors on the left up the passage, one led to Upstairs, the other Kelly's room.
It is conceivable that ''so tell him I have gone up'' [ words spoken by Prater to McCarthy at 1.30 am] would suggest that she had arranged to meet someone at the court, from a meeting that evening, as apparently her and Mary Kelly were both out that evening to try ''their luck''.
If this was the case, then the layout of millers court would not have been known by this person, and if he happened to be the Killer, and he informed her he would meet her at the passage entrance, saying ''If I was a bit late where do you live?' the reply being ''First door on the left''
We could then introduce the following scenario...
If the killer was not intending to meet her at 1.00-130, and just wanted to have access to her room, he may have said ''If I am late don't lock me out''.
But Praters routine of blocking her door with furniture was applied, so when the killer entered the first door , and came upon Praters room, finding it locked
he assumed he had the wrong location, and realized the first door, may have been the first door pass the passage...he tried his luck there.
If , and its a big ''IF'', room 13 was still on the latch, he could have walked in , and although realizing he had the wrong person...the rest is history[ as Robert interpreted me].
Regards Richard.

[Cogidubnus]

This is interesting regardless of whether or not he was trying to gain access to the shed that night. If the Ripper occasionally slept in the shed, he might have been acquaintances with both Kelly (because of proximity) and Eddowes (who Bruce Paley suggested occasionally spent nights there).

But if he had previously slept in the shed, then he'd surely have known the (only) way into it...and that MJKs door wasn't it...

No?

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

One hand from the other

Hi,
This theory is not without merit, their were two doors on the left up the passage, one led to Upstairs, the other Kelly's room.
It is conceivable that ''so tell him I have gone up'' [ words spoken by Prater to McCarthy at 1.30 am] would suggest that she had arranged to meet someone at the court, from a meeting that evening, as apparently her and Mary Kelly were both out that evening to try ''their luck''.
If this was the case, then the layout of millers court would not have been known by this person, and if he happened to be the Killer, and he informed her he would meet her at the passage entrance, saying ''If I was a bit late where do you live?' the reply being ''First door on the left''
We could then introduce the following scenario...
If the killer was not intending to meet her at 1.00-130, and just wanted to have access to her room, he may have said ''If I am late don't lock me out''.
But Praters routine of blocking her door with furniture was applied, so when the killer entered the first door , and came upon Praters room, finding it locked
he assumed he had the wrong location, and realized the first door, may have been the first door pass the passage...he tried his luck there.
If , and its a big ''IF'', room 13 was still on the latch, he could have walked in , and although realizing he had the wrong person...the rest is history[ as Robert interpreted me].
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard

On your 3D Millers Court, please, please, please don't do first door on the left!

Every good wish

Dave

[richardnunweek]

Hi Dave,
Sorry schoolboy error....
On the right ..on the right, we don't want to complicate things , now do we.
Regards Richard.

[Robert]

Hi Dave and Richard

You see how tricky these doors can be? I've a feeling McCarthy was lucky to escape evisceration.

The shed idea would apply to a disorganized kind of murderer who had been there before, was surprised to find it locked, and sought a back way in. Likewise the panic on finding Mary inside. Those who believe in an organized killer might see things differently. I think Jack was disorganized, or at the very least was "losing it" by November.

[Suzi]

Interesting..........these doors on the right in the alley- apres 'shed' are interesting No 1 upstairs Mrs P ( and Dids) - No2 Mary.

If Mrs P had followed her usual bed time routine of barricading herself and Dids (who probably came and went through the window!) in - there could be a problem here- As to Dids waking her- he probably just woke up and en route to window happened to wake Mrs P.

Now Mary had probably just staggered in- chucked her clothes off in some sort of random order maybe and collapsed- with or without chemise- onto the bed- possibly the last thing on her mind was to barricade herself in- being aware that if push came to shove a handy hand past the coat over the 'air conditioned' window could open the door from the outside anyway!... Knowing that (and possibly she wasn't alone in this-was more than likely common knowledge!!).... she probably just slept....until she was allegedly heard to cry (or someone did!) 'Oh Murder!'...still a rather odd phrase I feel!

The rest as we know is history- shame about the Lord Mayor's Show though.

[Robert]

Yes Suzi, I reckon she just didn't bother with the door, probably Mr A went out and she wasn't bothered to get up to fasten it. I don't suppose she was too cold either, if she was drunk-ish. Probably didn't feel the cold or anything else.

[Suzi]

Exactly!!!!!!!! cwtchd up throwing something over her- don't get me going on the kettle yes or no yet and ZONK....that was it- until whatever time she had her visit........another theory there......

[Wickerman]

Yes Suzi, I reckon she just didn't bother with the door, probably Mr A went out and she wasn't bothered to get up to fasten it. I don't suppose she was too cold either, if she was drunk-ish. Probably didn't feel the cold or anything else.

Hi Robert.
You think she was murdered ....after Astrachan left?

[Robert]

Yes Jon. Can't be sure of course but that's what I'd bet on.