Chapman’s death.

[Fisherman]

Ah, OK, I guess I read 'the times wrong' as hours out to fit in better with Phillips time of death not just a few minutes either way.

You got there before me, Herlock!

[Fisherman]

I think he's being completely truthful, and that he couldn't even imagine that he might have overlooked a dead woman almost under his feet. I'm also sure that he could have missed her. He wasn't looking to see what was in the yard, but concentrating on the state of the cellar door. That done, it was on to fixing his boot, and then leaving. As I've said before, I'm by no means convinced that the body was already there, but I think it could have been.

Yup, very well put. And the long and the short of it is - once again - that it cannot be ruled out that he simply missed the body.

[Harry D]

Yup, very well put. And the long and the short of it is - once again - that it cannot be ruled out that he simply missed the body.

What do you think Cadosch heard?

[Fisherman]

What do you think Cadosch heard?

I am not sure that Cadosch heard anything at all, to begin with. After all, people do sometimes like to be part of great things. Like the Ripper saga, for example. There were people a plenty offering up stories about the "Murder!" cry after the Millers Court murder, and it was apparent that they were not all being truthful. As I keep saying, I think the Long and Cadosch material is too good to be true. It sort of meets all the requirements anybody could have to believe that Chapman was killed in the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street at around 5.30, and that's just too convenient for my taste.

But let's say that Cadosch was a decent and honest fellow, and that he did try his best to explain what it was he heard! If so, I think he heard somebody saying "No" from one of the adjoining backyards for some reason. And that really does not amount to proof of anything at all.

Ar the end of the day, one of the things we can confidently exclude as being what he heard is Annie Chapmans murder. Phillips was never going to be that wrong, I'm afraid. She was cold and had onsetting rigor, and that disenables Cadosh to have overheard the murder.

[Joshua Rogan]

As regards that, I'm just about certain that he was lying. A market porter would almost certainly need a sharp sturdy knife at least a few times a day, if not more, to accomplish his duties in the market.

What did his duties involve that would involve using a sharp knife?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I am not sure that Cadosch heard anything at all, to begin with. After all, people do sometimes like to be part of great things. Like the Ripper saga, for example. There were people a plenty offering up stories about the "Murder!" cry after the Millers Court murder, and it was apparent that they were not all being truthful. As I keep saying, I think the Long and Cadosch material is too good to be true. It sort of meets all the requirements anybody could have to believe that Chapman was killed in the back yard of 29 Hanbury Street at around 5.30, and that's just too convenient for my taste.

But let's say that Cadosch was a decent and honest fellow, and that he did try his best to explain what it was he heard! If so, I think he heard somebody saying "No" from one of the adjoining backyards for some reason. And that really does not amount to proof of anything at all.

Ar the end of the day, one of the things we can confidently exclude as being what he heard is Annie Chapmans murder. Phillips was never going to be that wrong, I'm afraid. She was cold and had onsetting rigor, and that disenables Cadosh to have overheard the murder.

Earlier you called me closed-minded yet I’ve said that Phillips could have been correct and yet your position is the categorical one that allows for no doubt?

Throughout the history of the study of this case has any forensic medical expert stepped up and said that it would have been impossible for a Victorian Doctor to have been wrong in those circumstances? Modern Doctors have commented on other aspects of the case what about this one?

[Joshua Rogan]

Or he simply put his left hand on the door and pushed its open wide enough to enable him to sit himself down, facing right.

And how do you sit facing right on a step?

[Herlock Sholmes]

And how do you sit facing right on a step?

You can if you’re intent on avoiding seeing a body Joshua

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yup, very well put. And the long and the short of it is - once again - that it cannot be ruled out that he simply missed the body.

Neither can the existence of the Loch Ness monster but I wouldn’t put money on it being real.

[Fisherman]

And how do you sit facing right on a step?

With the axis of the body turned to the right, from the waist up. Surely, Joshua, you do not rule out that somebody sitting down on some stairs actually can turn to either side? Admittedly, the bum will not turn other than to a small degree, but all of the upper body will. If you want more explicit examples of people sitting "sideways" on stairs, google the phrase "sitting on the stairs" and click on "pictures".

[Fisherman]

Earlier you called me closed-minded yet I’ve said that Phillips could have been correct and yet your position is the categorical one that allows for no doubt?

Actually, you said something along the lines that you will never accept that Richardson may have missed out on the body if it was there, regardless of what diagram you are shown. To me, that IS close-minded. If you now say that he could have done so and that Phillips may have been right, then welcome aboard, Herlock!

Throughout the history of the study of this case has any forensic medical expert stepped up and said that it would have been impossible for a Victorian Doctor to have been wrong in those circumstances? Modern Doctors have commented on other aspects of the case what about this one?

I am aware of no doctor commenting on the Chapman case specifically, it has been more a case of medicos pointing out the overall problems involved in estimating the TOD.

[Fisherman]

Neither can the existence of the Loch Ness monster but I wouldn’t put money on it being real.

So no closed mind, eh?

[Sam Flynn]

You can if you’re intent on avoiding seeing a body Joshua

Doesn't appear that he was, or that he sidled meekly out of the door facing right, which he'd have to have opened wide enough to allow himself to sit on the second step and place his feet on the flagstones. His testimony seems pretty emphatic to me:

Did you notice any object in the yard? - No, sir. I could not have failed to notice the deceased if she had been there then.
Did you sit on the top step? - No, the second step.
Where were your feet? - On the flags of the yard.
You must have been quite close to where the body was found? - Quite right, sir. If she had been there at the time I must have seen her.

[Harry D]

Would the killer strike at 5am when daylight was breaking and the residents were stirring?

[Abby Normal]

Would the killer strike at 5am when daylight was breaking and the residents were stirring?

i couldnt beleive it when i first heard it also. its getting light, people are getting up, amd he strikes in the backyard mere feet from the residents.

but tje evidence points to thats exactly what he did. crazy.