Who's talking Cobblers ? John Richardson ?

[Cogidubnus]

But then at the inquest he's asked about the knife...goes away...comes back wih a sad rusty old blade that wouldn't cut anything, and changes his story...Now he says he tried to trim his boot, failed, and later used a sharper knife when he got to work...world's worst bullshitter!

Like I implied earlier, each embroidery worse than the last...

Dave

[Archaic]

The Importance of the Self-Closing Door

Assuming that Richardson was telling the truth, and that Chapman was already lying dead in the little alcove beside the stairs, how might he have been able to miss seeing her? Presumably his only intent in going to the back door was to check on his mother's cellar door. He needn't do anything except push the door open a little and look to the right. Right then, for whatever reason, his boot hurts him, he remembers the knife, and decides he's going to take care of that right here. How would he sit?

The back door, or so I've often heard it asserted, is one that closes by itself, either with a spring or by gravity. Richardson said that he sat on the second step. He was almost certainly sitting with the door partially open - to have shut the door, he'd have had to go down the steps far enough to let the door clear and shut (into the yard, basically), then come back to sit on the step. Had he done that, it would have been impossible to have missed the body, assuming it was there. Assuming Richardson to have been truthful and the body to have already been there, then, he never went so far down the steps as to allow the door to close.

If he sits on the steps, facing straight out into the yard, then the door will be bumping against his left arm as it tries to close. He presumably wanted both hands to work on the boot, so that's going to be awkward. What if, as he sat down, he turned to the right, so that the door was bumping against his back instead, and not interfering with his left arm? He keeps that position as he works, facing away from the location of the body. As he gets up to go, he turns to the right until he faces the doorway again, his right arm holding the door open as he goes back inside the house.

If it were done that way, it lets him go out on the steps where the light is good to fix his boot without ever facing toward the spot where the body was found. If you imagine yourself doing it that way, it's not a particularly awkward series of moves, and letting your back prop the door open works rather better than letting your left arm do it.

If the body were lying there at the time, though, there's still the matter of the smell of fresh blood and guts, which would presumably have been quite strong. I note that the little alleyway a few doors over was the entrance to a "Barber's Yard". If this were a branch of the Barber the horse-butcher's, then blood and guts might not have been an unusual smell in that backyard.

Hi Ginger.

Your scenario is very well described, and that's exactly what I think happened. Too often people forget how a heavy self-closing door forces you to alter your body position to hold it open- you tend to either use your elbows (which is uncomfortable) or your back.

Richardson looked to the right to check the lock. The self-closing door would have forced Richardson to turn even farther to his right, hence turning his face even farther away from whatever may have been lying on the ground behind the door. If he was sitting, he'd pretty much have to turn his back to the body in order to free his elbows & arms from the pressure of the door.

That area behind the open door was an enclosed space due to the the wall of #29 meeting the side fence, so it could be expected to have remained in somewhat more shadow than the rest of the yard until the early morning sun was at a certain height. I can't recall which direction the back yard faced, but some spots always stay unilluminated longer than others.

And early in the morning people are often not quite as awake and alert as they would be a little later in the day, especially while going about their dull pre-work daily routine. Many people do so "on automatic". Richardson had no reason to expect to see anything unusual or interesting in the wretched little backyard, so it's not surprising that he only visually checked the lock and his bothersome boot.

I don't think Richardson not noticing a body lying behind the door is such a big mystery; I can see how it could have happened in all honesty on his part.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

Why Richardson Didn't Smell the Blood, Etc.

Perhaps fresh blood/meat, but guts? No at that close distance he probably could have smelled that!

Hi Abby.

Remember there was an open privy just a few feet away from the steps, and privies in all the adjoining yards, in addition to the noxious smells of chamber pots, garbage, fish, slaughter houses, etc...

I expect that people in Whitechapel had long ago learned to "tune out" offensive smells. They would have had to, just to get through life!

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

I'm not sure you could see down the stairs to the cellar entrance from the top of the back door steps...despite Mrs Richardson's odd inquest testimony...the contemporary drawings in the press show the cellar entrance roofed by a structure which surely blocked that particular view...I think to view the cellar door, he'd have had to descend into the backyard and look down the cellar stairs...

I think Mrs Richardson's inquest testimony is a cover-up for her son, following a private admission from him (subsequent to his earlier statements) that he didn't actually check that day...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

yup

Hello Dave.

"But then at the inquest he's asked about the knife...goes away...comes back with a sad rusty old blade that wouldn't cut anything, and changes his story...Now he says he tried to trim his boot, failed, and later used a sharper knife when he got to work...world's worst bullshitter!

Like I implied earlier, each embroidery worse than the last..."

Precisely!

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Hi Bridwell
I was only joking about your " misdirection conspiracy "
As far as the " fence or three " i was referring to my earlier post about sound and Acoustics , and how certain conditions can affect one's perception.

Cheers All
Moonbegger .

Hi Moonbegger,

In that case, I owe you an apology and thank you for addressing the question.

As for the bell (if that's what it was) might it have been rigged up in some way to act as a primitive alarm system so that it rang when the door was opened (as used to be the case in some shops)? It Mrs Richardson had suffered thefts from the cellar that seems plausible - although there's no saying that it was there 80 odd years before James Mason turned up of course.
As for the self-closing door idea, I can't be sure, but it looks as though there could be rising butt hinges fitted, the giveaway being what looks like a gap between the top and bottom halves. Is that a hinge or am I misinterpreting again?!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Ginger.

Your scenario is very well described, and that's exactly what I think happened. Too often people forget how a heavy self-closing door forces you to alter your body position to hold it open- you tend to either use your elbows (which is uncomfortable) or your back.

Richardson looked to the right to check the lock. The self-closing door would have forced Richardson to turn even farther to his right, hence turning his face even farther away from whatever may have been lying on the ground behind the door. If he was sitting, he'd pretty much have to turn his back to the body in order to free his elbows & arms from the pressure of the door.

That area behind the open door was an enclosed space due to the the wall of #29 meeting the side fence, so it could be expected to have remained in somewhat more shadow than the rest of the yard until the early morning sun was at a certain height. I can't recall which direction the back yard faced, but some spots always stay unilluminated longer than others.

And early in the morning people are often not quite as awake and alert as they would be a little later in the day, especially while going about their dull pre-work daily routine. Many people do so "on automatic". Richardson had no reason to expect to see anything unusual or interesting in the wretched little backyard, so it's not surprising that he only visually checked the lock and his bothersome boot.

I don't think Richardson not noticing a body lying behind the door is such a big mystery; I can see how it could have happened in all honesty on his part.

Best regards,
Archaic

the body was not "behind the door". It was literally at his feet!

[Abby Normal]

Hello Dave.

"But then at the inquest he's asked about the knife...goes away...comes back with a sad rusty old blade that wouldn't cut anything, and changes his story...Now he says he tried to trim his boot, failed, and later used a sharper knife when he got to work...world's worst bullshitter!

Like I implied earlier, each embroidery worse than the last..."

Precisely!

Cheers.
LC

embroidered? He only added details(which were probably in his mind unimportant when he gave his story first-the important point was that he sat down on the steps)when forced to by the coroner. I would be more concerned with the feeding rabbits bit!! Ha Ha.

Plus he said he would have seen the body had it been there.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby.

Remember there was an open privy just a few feet away from the steps, and privies in all the adjoining yards, in addition to the noxious smells of chamber pots, garbage, fish, slaughter houses, etc...

I expect that people in Whitechapel had long ago learned to "tune out" offensive smells. They would have had to, just to get through life!

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Archaic and LC

or they got really good at it (as in being able to distinguish the smells). And I have a feeling that Annie Chapmans guts probably were pretty smelly. Also, I doubt that WC was in a constant fog of ill smells that was so bad that they were constantly drowning out other bad smells.( its almost like the argument that people would not have taken notice of people with blood on them because there were alot of butchers, fishmongers etc.) Anyway the smell thing is really a far second to the sight thing.

The whole problem with trying to cast Richardson as lying or not seeing the body is that you have to once again(like Lech as suspect) bend over backwards to do it.

[moonbegger]

Hi Abby

"The whole problem with trying to cast Richardson as lying or not seeing the body is that you have to once again(like Lech as suspect) bend over backwards to do it."

The thing is Abby, Richardson changed his story three or four times ! in a modern day court of law his testimony would have not made it past a committal hearing , let alone being a pivotal piece of evidence .. the only bending over backwards going on here is in believing his " cobblers" story

Cheers
Moonbegger .

[lynn cates]

crux

Hello Abby. And that is the crux of the matter--If he had looked left, would he have seen the body? I don't think so.

But to be fair, 1. he stood; 2. he sat and cut; 3. he sat but did not cut. Worst performance until Packer.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Repeating myself but...

Hi all

Hello Abby. And that is the crux of the matter--If he had looked left, would he have seen the body? I don't think so.

But to be fair, 1. he stood; 2. he sat and cut; 3. he sat but did not cut. Worst performance until Packer.

And then, of course, the elephant in the room:

I'm not sure you could see down the stairs to the cellar entrance from the top of the back door steps...despite Mrs Richardson's odd inquest testimony...the contemporary drawings in the press show the cellar entrance roofed by a structure which surely blocked that particular view...I think to view the cellar door, he'd have had to descend into the backyard and look down the cellar stairs...

All the best

Dave

[Archaic]

Line of Sight

Hi everyone.

The little wooden "roof" erected over the cellar steps was a very small, worn and rickety affair if the newspaper illustrations are at all reliable. The sketches I have seen show it with open sides and 2 slim supports. (Please see attached image.)

Probably all Richardson had to do to see the lock on the other cellar door was to look over, under, through, or past the primitive little roof-structure. Maybe this involved him leaning his head out a little from his position on the steps. If the door he was checking was set into the wall at a similar height to the other one, Richardson could easily see it right through the open sides of the roof-like structure.

Checking the locked door was part of his daily routine; I'm sure he had his "method" of checking the lock down pat. It sounds like he only did the minimum, eyeballing the lock rather than going into the yard to actually test it, but I expect that he did it in the same way every day.

We don't know the height of the door he was checking or the position of its lock, but I don't think we can really say that it was difficult or impossible for him to see from the steps- if it was, surely the police who were on the scene would have noticed? After all, they were there and we are not.

Personally, I trust the police to have checked out all the basics of Richardson's story, and apparently they were satisfied.

- Just out of curiosity, do those of you questioning Richardson's testimony suspect him of being the killer?

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Just out of curiosity, do those of you questioning Richardson's testimony suspect him of being the killer?

Not for my part...but the way he keeps unconvincingly modifying his story suggests to me that a tiny fib ("of course I checked the lock mum") has by necessity (via "I sat on the step and trimmed some leather off my boot") turned into a whopper ("The knife's blunt yer 'onor? Well I sat on the step, tried to trim some leather off my boot, but the knife was blunt, so I had to wait until I got to work") by the end of the Inquest...I think the Coroner was far from convinced by the way his tale was developing, and that's why he was sent away to fetch the knife...I think he's a weak and easily-led character and hence a poor witness.

By contrast, Cadosch and Long, notwithstanding the time discrepancy, clearly impressed the Coroner, so much so that he preferred them over the Police Surgeon...I ask myself why?

Much has been made over a solicitor naturally preferring a layman witness over a medic...I don't believe it...if for no other reason that the professions generally accorded each other mutual respect, in public at least...that much was self preservation (As an example look at the Guilds and their customs).

There must have been some reason why this was not the case here...is there somehing we're not picking up on? Is it, for example, Baxter's antipathy towards the police damning Bagster Phillips by association, or is there something else going on?

Just wondering...

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Seeing the Lock

Hi everyone.

The little wooden "roof" erected over the cellar steps was a very small, worn and rickety affair if the newspaper illustrations are at all reliable. The sketches I have seen show it with open sides and 2 slim supports.

Probably all Richardson had to do to see the lock on the other cellar door was to look over, under, through, or past the primitive little roof-structure. Maybe this involved him leaning his head out a little from his position on the steps. If the door he was checking was set into the wall at a similar height to the other one, Richardson could easily see it right through the open sides of the roof-like structure.

Best regards,
Archaic

My guess, from the image, is that you would see the lock if you were sitting on the steps, but not if you were standing because the roof would block the necessary line of sight. Having said that, wouldn't it be easier to take a couple of paces into the yard than to sit on the step? I'm leaning towards (Dave's I think?) view that Richardson didn't bother to check that particular morning.

Regards, Bridewell.