Who's talking Cobblers ? John Richardson ?

[Hunter]

Hi Bridewell,

Yes, you are correct. My memory did not serve me right. Should have checked primary sources first.

Good call.

[moonbegger]

Hello MB. A bit astonishing. I can understand a witness or two being a bit off, but all three?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn , Dave , Mac

I know it sounds a bit strange at at first , But i really do see the witnesses who come forward in this particular murder ( and few in some of the other murders too ) more like mud in the water , They muddy up and cloud the water , and distort what could be a clearer view . so my thinking is remove the mud from the water ! and in this case i dont think its that hard to do .. i think everyone is in agreement that Richardsons Cobblers story should be put to one side for the moment . That leaves Long and Cadosh ...
Cadosh heard something from somewhere , From where exactly and from whom, he cannot be sure ( but strangely enough no one has a problem with putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 7 ? And in fact Given my Science of " Acoustic sound modulation" argument at that time of the morning, Along with FleetwoodMac's suggestion that Cadosh may have added relevance to what he heard in accordance to finding out that a murder was committed across the fence around that time .. all add up to rendering his " vague statement " insignificant , and only partially relavant in supporting Longs statement . And this is where i may loose a few of you if havent already I'm not convinced that long saw anything of importance .. Like i mentioned in my earlier post what if she too was telling phibs .. or at the very best over egging the pudding ? so we'd then have ..
Richardson, unreliable , Cadosh, vague , and Long, over egging, or possibly lying ? or put up to lie by someone else ? who wanted to point a finger at a certain class/race of people. Either way , what if she sat back later that day and thought ,, " 29 Hanbury street is on my route to work , 5.30am ( around the time the murder was believed to have happened ) is around the time i would be passing by , Why not take advantage of the fact , and paint myself into the picture ". So whatever time she left home and arrived at work that morning didn't matter if she was gonna tie it together to make her story fit. ( guess she didn't take into account that her timing issues would be under the microscope a 100 years later ) So .. was in fact Elizibeth Long the original Weir side Jack ?

cheers
moonbegger

[moonbegger]

and likely come crashing down on your head.

The Tree is in my garden ... Born and raised in whitechapel , if i wanna pick apples of my tree i will , and they wont hurt me if they do fall on my head .. go pick apples off your own tree

[Cogidubnus]

Well we're all entitled to our opinions Moonbegger and I understand your frustration at the conflict between the medical evidence and the witnesses...I and I suspect many others share it!

However, beyond my belief that Richardson doesn't come across as a particularly reliable witness, I'd be very chary of disregarding ALL the witness evidence...that way anarchy lies!

My inclination is to try to file away the anomoly as potentially interesting, pass on and try to keep an open mind...

All the best

Dave

[moonbegger]

Well we're all entitled to our opinions Moonbegger and I understand your frustration at the conflict between the medical evidence and the witnesses...I and I suspect many others share it!

However, beyond my belief that Richardson doesn't come across as a particularly reliable witness, I'd be very chary of disregarding ALL the witness evidence...that way anarchy lies!

My inclination is to try to file away the anomoly as potentially interesting, pass on and try to keep an open mind...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave .

I am in Absolute, and total agreement with you ........ Almost


The Tree is in my garden ... Born and raised in whitechapel , if i wanna pick apples of my tree i will , and they wont hurt me if they do fall on my head ..

cheers
Moonbegger .

[Cogidubnus]

Hi MB

I am reassured...Almost

Dave

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Mac. Would it not be natural for a punter to speak in an undertone whilst conducting a "business deal"?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Depends on the situation.

In front of a policeman, yes, sensible.

In front of a member of the public in Whitechapel in 1888 - why?

[lynn cates]

witnesses

Hello MB. I agree about Richardson--no problem there.

Cadosch not only heard a sound but he seemed to see something fall against the fence. 3-4 minutes earlier he heard, "No." Of course that may NOT have been Annie and her assailant, but someone seems to have been in the yard.

Mrs. Long being suborned? To what purpose?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

pride

Hello Mac. Well, even in that environment people still had some pride.

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

Hello MB. I agree about Richardson--no problem there.

Cadosch not only heard a sound but he seemed to see something fall against the fence. 3-4 minutes earlier he heard, "No." Of course that may NOT have been Annie and her assailant, but someone seems to have been in the yard.

Mrs. Long being suborned? To what purpose?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn ..

" but someone seems to have been in the yard "

And someone probably was in [ A ] yard , not necessarily in [ The ] yard .. the only thing Cadosh is certain of is that he heard a faint noise [ somewhere ] across the fence ( Given the way natural Acoustics work ) that could mean anywhere across the fence .. 1 fence , 2 fence , 3 or even 4 fences across .

"Mrs. Long being suborned? To what purpose?"

Any one of many reasons that i have already posted Lynn.. the main being i guess .. a Latter day example , As soon as someone pulls out a TV camera .. everyone wants to be in the picture .. people get more flamboyant and contrived , and everyone plays the part they think their expected to play .. a rough analogy i grant you , but accurate none the less ..


The Tree is in my garden ...Born and raised in whitechapel , if i wanna pick apples of my tree i will , and they wont hurt me if they do fall on my head

cheers
Moonbegger .

[lynn cates]

shaking

Hello MB. Thanks. But sound aside, if someone falls the other side of the fence, you would see a slight shaking. (This may be tried if you have a wooden fence.)

The argument about Mrs. Long could be made for any one of the witnesses.

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

Hello MB. I agree about Richardson--no problem there.

Cadosch not only heard a sound but he seemed to see something fall against the fence. 3-4 minutes earlier he heard, "No." Of course that may NOT have been Annie and her assailant, but someone seems to have been in the yard.

Mrs. Long being suborned? To what purpose?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn ..

" but someone seems to have been in the yard "

And someone probably was in [ A ] yard , not necessarily in [ The ] yard .. the only thing Cadosh is certain of is that he heard a faint noise [ somewhere ] across the fence ( Given the way natural Acoustics work ) that could mean anywhere across the fence .. 1 fence , 2 fence , 3 or even 4 fences across .

"Mrs. Long being suborned? To what purpose?"

Any one of many reasons that i have already posted Lynn.. the main being i guess .. a Latter day example , As soon as someone pulls out a TV camera .. everyone wants to be in the picture .. people get more flamboyant and contrived , and everyone plays the part they think their expected to play .. a rough analogy i grant you , but accurate none the less ..


The Tree is in my garden ...Born and raised in whitechapel , if i wanna pick apples of my tree i will , and they wont hurt me if they do fall on my head

cheers
Moonbegger .

[moonbegger]

Hello MB. Thanks. But sound aside, if someone falls the other side of the fence, you would see a slight shaking. (This may be tried if you have a wooden fence.)

The argument about Mrs. Long could be made for any one of the witnesses.

Cheers.
LC

Hello again Lynn ,

"The argument about Mrs. Long could be made for any one of the witnesses."

Yes indeed Lynn ! There is a lot of mud in the water .. its One of the main reasons i feel that no one has been able to point a solid factual finger at any one suspect .
As far as the Fence Goes .. was it a physical impression ( Did he see the fence physically move ) or was it once again ( he heard the sound of something slump against the ( A ) fence .. it really is amazing how sound can travel given the right acoustic surroundings , and crisp morning air .. especially to someone who's not really paying much attention ( as cadosh freely admitted )

cheers
moonbegger.

[lynn cates]

touch

Hello MB. Thanks.

"Something seemed suddenly to touch the fence."

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Moonbegger

Cadosch was used to things falling against that fence...he specifically mentions the packing cases habitually falling against it...I'm led to believe by that, he knew EXACTLY which fence he heard rattled...

The only circumstance I can think of which might alter that view is the presence of heavy smog (which totally muffles sound and deadens one's perception of where it originates), but I don't think there was any that day!

All the best

Dave