Who's talking Cobblers ? John Richardson ?

[Abby Normal]

Hello Dave.

"But then at the inquest he's asked about the knife...goes away...comes back with a sad rusty old blade that wouldn't cut anything, and changes his story...Now he says he tried to trim his boot, failed, and later used a sharper knife when he got to work...world's worst bullshitter!

Like I implied earlier, each embroidery worse than the last..."

Precisely!

Cheers.
LC

embroidered? He only added details(which were probably in his mind unimportant when he gave his story first-the important point was that he sat down on the steps)when forced to by the coroner. I would be more concerned with the feeding rabbits bit!! Ha Ha.

Plus he said he would have seen the body had it been there.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Ginger.

Your scenario is very well described, and that's exactly what I think happened. Too often people forget how a heavy self-closing door forces you to alter your body position to hold it open- you tend to either use your elbows (which is uncomfortable) or your back.

Richardson looked to the right to check the lock. The self-closing door would have forced Richardson to turn even farther to his right, hence turning his face even farther away from whatever may have been lying on the ground behind the door. If he was sitting, he'd pretty much have to turn his back to the body in order to free his elbows & arms from the pressure of the door.

That area behind the open door was an enclosed space due to the the wall of #29 meeting the side fence, so it could be expected to have remained in somewhat more shadow than the rest of the yard until the early morning sun was at a certain height. I can't recall which direction the back yard faced, but some spots always stay unilluminated longer than others.

And early in the morning people are often not quite as awake and alert as they would be a little later in the day, especially while going about their dull pre-work daily routine. Many people do so "on automatic". Richardson had no reason to expect to see anything unusual or interesting in the wretched little backyard, so it's not surprising that he only visually checked the lock and his bothersome boot.

I don't think Richardson not noticing a body lying behind the door is such a big mystery; I can see how it could have happened in all honesty on his part.

Best regards,
Archaic

the body was not "behind the door". It was literally at his feet!

[Bridewell]

Hi Bridwell
I was only joking about your " misdirection conspiracy "
As far as the " fence or three " i was referring to my earlier post about sound and Acoustics , and how certain conditions can affect one's perception.

Cheers All
Moonbegger .

Hi Moonbegger,

In that case, I owe you an apology and thank you for addressing the question.

As for the bell (if that's what it was) might it have been rigged up in some way to act as a primitive alarm system so that it rang when the door was opened (as used to be the case in some shops)? It Mrs Richardson had suffered thefts from the cellar that seems plausible - although there's no saying that it was there 80 odd years before James Mason turned up of course.
As for the self-closing door idea, I can't be sure, but it looks as though there could be rising butt hinges fitted, the giveaway being what looks like a gap between the top and bottom halves. Is that a hinge or am I misinterpreting again?!

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

yup

Hello Dave.

"But then at the inquest he's asked about the knife...goes away...comes back with a sad rusty old blade that wouldn't cut anything, and changes his story...Now he says he tried to trim his boot, failed, and later used a sharper knife when he got to work...world's worst bullshitter!

Like I implied earlier, each embroidery worse than the last..."

Precisely!

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

I'm not sure you could see down the stairs to the cellar entrance from the top of the back door steps...despite Mrs Richardson's odd inquest testimony...the contemporary drawings in the press show the cellar entrance roofed by a structure which surely blocked that particular view...I think to view the cellar door, he'd have had to descend into the backyard and look down the cellar stairs...

I think Mrs Richardson's inquest testimony is a cover-up for her son, following a private admission from him (subsequent to his earlier statements) that he didn't actually check that day...

All the best

Dave

[Archaic]

Why Richardson Didn't Smell the Blood, Etc.

Perhaps fresh blood/meat, but guts? No at that close distance he probably could have smelled that!

Hi Abby.

Remember there was an open privy just a few feet away from the steps, and privies in all the adjoining yards, in addition to the noxious smells of chamber pots, garbage, fish, slaughter houses, etc...

I expect that people in Whitechapel had long ago learned to "tune out" offensive smells. They would have had to, just to get through life!

Best regards,
Archaic

[Archaic]

The Importance of the Self-Closing Door

Assuming that Richardson was telling the truth, and that Chapman was already lying dead in the little alcove beside the stairs, how might he have been able to miss seeing her? Presumably his only intent in going to the back door was to check on his mother's cellar door. He needn't do anything except push the door open a little and look to the right. Right then, for whatever reason, his boot hurts him, he remembers the knife, and decides he's going to take care of that right here. How would he sit?

The back door, or so I've often heard it asserted, is one that closes by itself, either with a spring or by gravity. Richardson said that he sat on the second step. He was almost certainly sitting with the door partially open - to have shut the door, he'd have had to go down the steps far enough to let the door clear and shut (into the yard, basically), then come back to sit on the step. Had he done that, it would have been impossible to have missed the body, assuming it was there. Assuming Richardson to have been truthful and the body to have already been there, then, he never went so far down the steps as to allow the door to close.

If he sits on the steps, facing straight out into the yard, then the door will be bumping against his left arm as it tries to close. He presumably wanted both hands to work on the boot, so that's going to be awkward. What if, as he sat down, he turned to the right, so that the door was bumping against his back instead, and not interfering with his left arm? He keeps that position as he works, facing away from the location of the body. As he gets up to go, he turns to the right until he faces the doorway again, his right arm holding the door open as he goes back inside the house.

If it were done that way, it lets him go out on the steps where the light is good to fix his boot without ever facing toward the spot where the body was found. If you imagine yourself doing it that way, it's not a particularly awkward series of moves, and letting your back prop the door open works rather better than letting your left arm do it.

If the body were lying there at the time, though, there's still the matter of the smell of fresh blood and guts, which would presumably have been quite strong. I note that the little alleyway a few doors over was the entrance to a "Barber's Yard". If this were a branch of the Barber the horse-butcher's, then blood and guts might not have been an unusual smell in that backyard.

Hi Ginger.

Your scenario is very well described, and that's exactly what I think happened. Too often people forget how a heavy self-closing door forces you to alter your body position to hold it open- you tend to either use your elbows (which is uncomfortable) or your back.

Richardson looked to the right to check the lock. The self-closing door would have forced Richardson to turn even farther to his right, hence turning his face even farther away from whatever may have been lying on the ground behind the door. If he was sitting, he'd pretty much have to turn his back to the body in order to free his elbows & arms from the pressure of the door.

That area behind the open door was an enclosed space due to the the wall of #29 meeting the side fence, so it could be expected to have remained in somewhat more shadow than the rest of the yard until the early morning sun was at a certain height. I can't recall which direction the back yard faced, but some spots always stay unilluminated longer than others.

And early in the morning people are often not quite as awake and alert as they would be a little later in the day, especially while going about their dull pre-work daily routine. Many people do so "on automatic". Richardson had no reason to expect to see anything unusual or interesting in the wretched little backyard, so it's not surprising that he only visually checked the lock and his bothersome boot.

I don't think Richardson not noticing a body lying behind the door is such a big mystery; I can see how it could have happened in all honesty on his part.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

But then at the inquest he's asked about the knife...goes away...comes back wih a sad rusty old blade that wouldn't cut anything, and changes his story...Now he says he tried to trim his boot, failed, and later used a sharper knife when he got to work...world's worst bullshitter!

Like I implied earlier, each embroidery worse than the last...

Dave

[lynn cates]

smell

Hello Abby. Go here, post #7 by "brossa."

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-534476.html

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Hello Ginger.

"there's still the matter of the smell of fresh blood and guts, which would presumably have been quite strong"

Not necessarily. Found a website that discusses this. The claim there is that it smells about like a package of raw steak opened up. It is described as "inoffensive."

Cheers.
LC

Perhaps fresh blood/meat, but guts? No at that close distance he probably could have smelled that!

[Abby Normal]

If Richardson is telling the truth about sitting on the step, there is absolutely NO way he does not see Annie's body. It was light enough to see the lock was secure so it would be light enough to see a body. he would have sat down and as he looked at his shoe her dead face would have been staring right up at him literally inches away (down and slightly to his left). Her body would have been in his line of sight right there. Come on people!

[lynn cates]

steak

Hello Ginger.

"there's still the matter of the smell of fresh blood and guts, which would presumably have been quite strong"

Not necessarily. Found a website that discusses this. The claim there is that it smells about like a package of raw steak opened up. It is described as "inoffensive."

Cheers.
LC

[Ginger]

Hi Curious; you're very welcome. I agree that a person concerned with checking locks located to the right would be unlikely to see under the bottom edge of the door- especially in the dim light of early morning.

Assuming that Richardson was telling the truth, and that Chapman was already lying dead in the little alcove beside the stairs, how might he have been able to miss seeing her? Presumably his only intent in going to the back door was to check on his mother's cellar door. He needn't do anything except push the door open a little and look to the right. Right then, for whatever reason, his boot hurts him, he remembers the knife, and decides he's going to take care of that right here. How would he sit?

The back door, or so I've often heard it asserted, is one that closes by itself, either with a spring or by gravity. Richardson said that he sat on the second step. He was almost certainly sitting with the door partially open - to have shut the door, he'd have had to go down the steps far enough to let the door clear and shut (into the yard, basically), then come back to sit on the step. Had he done that, it would have been impossible to have missed the body, assuming it was there. Assuming Richardson to have been truthful and the body to have already been there, then, he never went so far down the steps as to allow the door to close.

If he sits on the steps, facing straight out into the yard, then the door will be bumping against his left arm as it tries to close. He presumably wanted both hands to work on the boot, so that's going to be awkward. What if, as he sat down, he turned to the right, so that the door was bumping against his back instead, and not interfering with his left arm? He keeps that position as he works, facing away from the location of the body. As he gets up to go, he turns to the right until he faces the doorway again, his right arm holding the door open as he goes back inside the house.

If it were done that way, it lets him go out on the steps where the light is good to fix his boot without ever facing toward the spot where the body was found. If you imagine yourself doing it that way, it's not a particularly awkward series of moves, and letting your back prop the door open works rather better than letting your left arm do it.

If the body were lying there at the time, though, there's still the matter of the smell of fresh blood and guts, which would presumably have been quite strong. I note that the little alleyway a few doors over was the entrance to a "Barber's Yard". If this were a branch of the Barber the horse-butcher's, then blood and guts might not have been an unusual smell in that backyard.

[Archaic]

Self-Closing Mechanism of #29's Door

Hi, Archaic,
Very interesting photo. Thanks for sharing it.

Yes, that does look like an old bell, doesn't it. Wonder if it was?

Also, I think that the door could have blocked the view of the body if a person were standing. Especially a person concerned only with something to his right.

I also tend to think that the height of a person would have some effect on seeing or not seeing the body beneath a door. A taller person would be less likely to see under the door, it seems to me.

Also, wasn't the door on a spring? Did a person have to keep pushing against the door to keep it open? So Richardson, standing, would have his left hand pushing against the door, while looking to his right.

Guess work, totally.curious

Hi Curious; you're very welcome. I agree that a person concerned with checking locks located to the right would be unlikely to see under the bottom edge of the door- especially in the dim light of early morning.

Yes, the door was supposed to be on some sort of a self-closing mechanism, and I wonder if that is what the odd metal bar sticking up over the door could be?

If you look at the top of the door, there's a piece of rusty metal sticking up diagonally from the top back corner of the door, roughly above the line of its hinges.

The metal bar appears to have pulled loose from the wall; you can see the lighter mark it exposed when it came away. In this photo the door merely sags and hangs open without snapping shut.

In my opinion, a self-closing mechanism on the door would mean that the door would have partially closed and physically pressed against any person standing or sitting on the steps, thus further obstructing their view into the yard, especially the area behind the door.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Curious , Dave
I Think Curious nailed it here , I Couldn't have put it better myself .. It really is the only explanation that ties up all the loose ends , it even accounts for Annies torn off rings ..

Oh I don't for a moment think it's the only explanation...

Just as a f'rinstance what if Bagster-Phillips was drunk that day, the witnesses were right and he wasn't? (Let's be clear I'm not seriously contending this, just demonstrating other explanations may be possible)...

What do we know about the esteemed medic?

Come to that, how much do we really know about the witnesses?

Dave