A photograph of Joseph Lawende in 1899

[Herlock Sholmes]

I was asked by someone else to provide a reference to Swanson's report.

I did so.

This has nothing to do with you.

This is a forum. I was unaware that certain topics were off limits to certain posters and tat you were the arbiter.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Not a white jacket and black pants ‘salt and peppers.’ You really should let this one go PI.

I was asked by someone else to provide a reference to Swanson's report.

I did so.

This has nothing to do with you.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The description of the man seen by "two men coming out of a club" is given in a report by Donald Swanson, dated 19 October 1888, as "age 30 ht. 5 ft. 7 or 8 in. comp. fair fair moustache, medium built, dress pepper & salt colour loose jacket, grey cloth cap with peak of same colour, reddish handkerchief tied in a knot, round neck, appearance of a sailor." ^[8] Essentially the same description was eventually published in the Police Gazette on 19 October 1888. ^[9]


https://wiki.casebook.org/joseph_lawende.html

Not a white jacket and black pants ‘salt and peppers.’ You really should let this one go PI.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Amazing.

It seems that in addition to being unaware of the difference between speculation and deduction, and between deduction and fantasy, you are unaware of the fact that accusing someone of inventing evidence constitutes a personal attack.

Stop whining.

You said that you had evidence. You have produced nothing apart from something unrelated. Lawende mentioned that the man had the appearance of a sailor solely due to his peaked cap (and possibly his neckerchief)

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Can you post the report. ?

The description of the man seen by "two men coming out of a club" is given in a report by Donald Swanson, dated 19 October 1888, as "age 30 ht. 5 ft. 7 or 8 in. comp. fair fair moustache, medium built, dress pepper & salt colour loose jacket, grey cloth cap with peak of same colour, reddish handkerchief tied in a knot, round neck, appearance of a sailor." ^[8] Essentially the same description was eventually published in the Police Gazette on 19 October 1888. ^[9]

https://wiki.casebook.org/joseph_lawende.html

[Herlock Sholmes]

The US Navy "salt and peppers" appear to be a modern uniform, dating from the 1970's as far as I can find.

There are examples of salt and pepper coloured clothing, but nothing Navy related. I'm happy to be pointed in the right direction though.

Thanks Al.

[FISHY1118]

Can you post the report. ?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Im not Aware that Lawende mentioned these words in any official capacity.


''Lawende said ‘pepper and salt’ about the jacket alone''.


Can someone make reference to its location ? .

It is in a report by Swanson.

That is the most detailed version of Lawende's description of the suspect in existence and obviously the official police record of it.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

The US Navy "salt and peppers" appear to be a modern uniform, dating from the 1970's as far as I can find.

There are examples of salt and pepper coloured clothing, but nothing Navy related. I'm happy to be pointed in the right direction though.

[FISHY1118]

Im not Aware that Lawende mentioned these words in any official capacity.


''Lawende said ‘pepper and salt’ about the jacket alone''.


Can someone make reference to its location ? .

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I have made no personal attacks on you. Not a single one. I have been scrupulous about this. Disagreement is not an attack.

Amazing.

It seems that in addition to being unaware of the difference between speculation and deduction, and between deduction and fantasy, you are unaware of the fact that accusing someone of inventing evidence constitutes a personal attack.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I have a feeling that you're trying to provoke me.

I have just two more points.

First, since you mention kindergarten tactics, readers may think it is childish constantly to direct personal remarks at someone and then when he complains, to suggest that he is hypersensitive or thin-skinned or imagining that he is being attacked.

I have made no personal attacks on you. Not a single one. I have been scrupulous about this. Disagreement is not an attack.

Secondly, and without revealing my source for the pepper-and-salt coloured jacket having been commonly worn by sailors, which I am under no obligation to do here, there is the following curious fact:

• Salt and Peppers: Refers to the old style working white uniform, where the sailor wore a white shirt, and black pants. Today, Salt and Peppers are worn by cooks that work in a ship's wardroom.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appen....S._Navy_slang


As you say, People on here can read and they know that the fact that Lawende described a man who was wearing a pepper-and-salt coloured loose-fitting jacket as having the appearance of a sailor, and the fact that I said that I knew that pepper-and-salt coloured loose-fitting jackets were commonly worn by sailors, and the fact that an American sailor's uniform used to be referred to as Salt and Peppers does rather suggest that there is some historical connection between Salt and Pepper clothing and merchant seamen.

Clearly absolutely unconnected. Lawende said ‘pepper and salt’ about the jacket alone. The above quote clearly uses ‘salt and peppers’ as a name for a sailors uniform as a whole where they wore a white shirt and black pants.

No wonder you were unwilling to reveal that embarrassing attempt at a connection. So now we know for certain what we always did know. That Lawende only mentioned the appearance of a sailor because of the peaked cap and possibly the neckerchief. Which doesn’t even approach the territory of evidence for the killer being a sailor.

You could simply have said that you thought that the killer ‘could’ have been a sailor without trying this but of shoehorning.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Expected. This is exactly what you did in the thread before you were placed ‘on leave.’ When I pressed you for a response on the jacket issue you invented some pretext for not responding so that you could avoid admitting what we all know to be the truth.

No problem. People on here can read and they know when someone adopts the “I know something but I’m not telling you” position. And they know what such kindergarten tactics mean.

I have a feeling that you're trying to provoke me.

I have just two more points.

First, since you mention kindergarten tactics, readers may think it is childish constantly to direct personal remarks at someone and then when he complains, to suggest that he is hypersensitive or thin-skinned or imagining that he is being attacked.

Secondly, and without revealing my source for the pepper-and-salt coloured jacket having been commonly worn by sailors, which I am under no obligation to do here, there is the following curious fact:

• Salt and Peppers: Refers to the old style working white uniform, where the sailor wore a white shirt, and black pants. Today, Salt and Peppers are worn by cooks that work in a ship's wardroom.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appen....S._Navy_slang


As you say, People on here can read and they know that the fact that Lawende described a man who was wearing a pepper-and-salt coloured loose-fitting jacket as having the appearance of a sailor, and the fact that I said that I knew that pepper-and-salt coloured loose-fitting jackets were commonly worn by sailors, and the fact that an American sailor's uniform used to be referred to as Salt and Peppers does rather suggest that there is some historical connection between Salt and Pepper clothing and merchant seamen.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I didn't write that all the timings have to be accepted as exact and correct, as you claim I stated, and I don't invent evidence, as you allege I do.

That is positively my final word to you.

I do not accept a repeated accusation that I invent evidence from anyone.

Expected. This is exactly what you did in the thread before you were placed ‘on leave.’ When I pressed you for a response on the jacket issue you invented some pretext for not responding so that you could avoid admitting what we all know to be the truth.

No problem. People on here can read and they know when someone adopts the “I know something but I’m not telling you” position. And they know what such kindergarten tactics mean.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

You have no evidence that a salt and pepper jacket was associated with sailors. There’s absolutely no benefit in secrecy on this issue; if you had evidence you would have provided it with glee but you haven’t because you made it up to fit your theory. Simple as that.

I didn't write that all the timings have to be accepted as exact and correct, as you claim I stated, and I don't invent evidence, as you allege I do.

That is positively my final word to you.

I do not accept a repeated accusation that I invent evidence from anyone.