12:45 am

[Simon Wood]

That's why he's called BS Man.

[Sam Flynn]

Lipski could be perceived as an insult or threat in itself, so perhaps that was all was needed.

That's what we've been led to believe, but I've never been particularly convinced by the suggestion. I still feel that the name on its own, minus an "Eff off" or whatever, seems rather underpowered. Perhaps there was an "Eff off" originally, and it got lost in the telling.

[Sam Flynn]

Indeed Sam, but in the cases of Chapman and Eddowes, the man is aware he is being observed.

I'm not so sure, Jon. Mrs Long seems to have walked into Hanbury Street and saw him already talking with Annie, likewise Lawende and co appear to have caught Eddowes and her man in mid-conversation. In either case, I don't get the impression that the killer suddenly changed into a smoothie just because he realised he'd been seen.

[Abby Normal]

I'm not so sure, Jon. Mrs Long seems to have walked into Hanbury Street and saw him already talking with Annie, likewise Lawende and co appear to have caught Eddowes and her man in mid-conversation. In either case, I don't get the impression that the killer suddenly changed into a smoothie just because he realised he'd been seen.

what difference does it make what the victim and suspect were doing when they were spotted. Bs man, sailor man, Longs man all became suspects or persons of interest anyway.

the point is the killer didn't seem to care if hed been seen with the victim, no matter what he was doing with them, as long as the witnesses didn't know him.

and besides, as Jon correctly pointed out, BS man didn't realize he had been spotted until after he started assaulting stride.

[Abby Normal]

That's what we've been led to believe, but I've never been particularly convinced by the suggestion. I still feel that the name on its own, minus an "Eff off" or whatever, seems rather underpowered. Perhaps there was an "Eff off" originally, and it got lost in the telling.

actually the more I think about it yelling just lipski in those circumstances seems more reasonable than just yelling Lizzie. especially since lipski is a powerful insult word. and why do you just yell the persons name-Lizzie- in a fight or argument? that to me makes no sense.

but of course Lipski is what the witness heard so obviously it couldn't be that.

good grief.

[Abby Normal]

That's why he's called BS Man.

I knew that was coming.LOL!

[Michael W Richards]

This comparative with Mrs Long and Annie has to end. Cadosches statement, IF true, is almost certifiable evidence that the soft cry after the "thud" was Annie. That happened around 10 minutes before Long saw someone.

Its not realistic, considering the extent of the effort expelled eviscerating Annie, to assume that it took less than 20-30 minutes.

[Joshua Rogan]

This comparative with Mrs Long and Annie has to end. Cadosches statement, IF true, is almost certifiable evidence that the soft cry after the "thud" was Annie. That happened around 10 minutes before Long saw someone.

Its not realistic, considering the extent of the effort expelled eviscerating Annie, to assume that it took less than 20-30 minutes.

Erm, didn't Dr Phillips give a figure of 15 minutes?

[c.d.]

Hi CD

Church Pasage Man still went on to kill Eddowes after been seen by 3 men, and Annie Chapman`s killer still went on to kill Chapman despite Mrs Long witnessing him approaching a victim.

Yes Jon, but the individuals you sight were not witnessing a crime in progress as opposed to Schwartz and Pipe Man. So really how much attention would they be paying to a particular person on the street? Also, it would be a reasonable assumption on the part of the B.S. man that Schwartz and/or Pipe Man had run off to find the nearest PC. Why stick around at that point to commit a murder?

c.d.

[c.d.]

"Now I see why you've stayed interested all this time, reads like a interesting fiction. The silent invisible threats."

Hello Michael,

I have no idea of what you mean by the above. Threats? To whom?

It would seem to me that if the whole Liz/B.S. man encounter took under five minutes (which seems reasonable) and if Fanny was not at her door during those five minutes then she could have missed it.

c.d.

[Sam Flynn]

Erm, didn't Dr Phillips give a figure of 15 minutes?

I'd put it even lower. Fewer than 10 minutes would have been sufficient for the crude evisceration of Annie Chapman.

[c.d.]

I don't see how the the witnesses not knowing the killer factors into it. Didn't they have sketches of suspects as well as line ups?

c.d.

[c.d.]

hi CD
Because he was pissed off and lost his temper. Ive always thought that Schwartz may have actually witnessed the throat cutting but didn't realize it-when he saw BS mans hands go up to her shoulder area. Or it could have happened shortly after he fled.

Hello Abby,

A pissed off BS man presents its own problems. Wouldn't you expect some yelling if he was angry? Yet nobody in the club post Schwartz heard anything. Then you have the problem of how Stride went from where Schwartz saw her to where she was killed. Why accompany a pissed off, angry BS man voluntarily into the passage? What could come of that but a beating? And if she was dragged, you have the cachous problem. I know you don't give that any weight but at some point wouldn't Stride have known she had fallen into the hands of the Ripper and was being dragged to her death? Is it reasonable to believe that the little packet of tissue wrapped cachous which you believe had already survived her being thrown to the ground and her getting up somehow made it through her struggle to stay alive? Also, if she was dragged and fought for her life why were her clothes not torn or disheveled?

To me, it all speaks of her being with a client not the BS man.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby,

A pissed off BS man presents its own problems. Wouldn't you expect some yelling if he was angry? Yet nobody in the club post Schwartz heard anything. Then you have the problem of how Stride went from where Schwartz saw her to where she was killed. Why accompany a pissed off, angry BS man voluntarily into the passage? What could come of that but a beating? And if she was dragged, you have the cachous problem. I know you don't give that any weight but at some point wouldn't Stride have known she had fallen into the hands of the Ripper and was being dragged to her death? Is it reasonable to believe that the little packet of tissue wrapped cachous which you believe had already survived her being thrown to the ground and her getting up somehow made it through her struggle to stay alive? Also, if she was dragged and fought for her life why were her clothes not torn or disheveled?

To me, it all speaks of her being with a client not the BS man.

c.d.

Hi CD

Wouldn't you expect some yelling if he was angry? Yet nobody in the club post Schwartz heard anything.

because they were singing.

Then you have the problem of how Stride went from where Schwartz saw her to where she was killed. Why accompany a pissed off, angry BS man voluntarily into the passage? What could come of that but a beating? And if she was dragged, you have the cachous problem. I know you don't give that any weight but at some point wouldn't Stride have known she had fallen into the hands of the Ripper and was being dragged to her death? Is it reasonable to believe that the little packet of tissue wrapped cachous which you believe had already survived her being thrown to the ground and her getting up somehow made it through her struggle to stay alive? Also, if she was dragged and fought for her life why were her clothes not torn or disheveled?

in one of my favored scenarios he cuts her throat out in the street, which may help explain why she didn't yell loudly, he flees, her hand goes to her cut throat(blood on her hand) as she stumbles toward the sounds of singing(perceived safety/help) into the yard and expires there.

To me, it all speaks of her being with a client not the BS man.

well BS man may have been a client, or more likely posing as a client. she just wasn't selling that night, which is why she probably ended up with a throat cut and no mutilations.

[John G]

Hi CD


because they were singing.



in one of my favored scenarios he cuts her throat out in the street, which may help explain why she didn't yell loudly, he flees, her hand goes to her cut throat(blood on her hand) as she stumbles toward the sounds of singing(perceived safety/help) into the yard and expires there.



well BS man may have been a client, or more likely posing as a client. she just wasn't selling that night, which is why she probably ended up with a throat cut and no mutilations.

That's actually an interesting argument. However, it doesn't explain how the cachous survived the struggle in the street, i e. weren't dropped, or why Stride didn't instinctively draw both hands towards her throat, thus dropping the cachous.

It also doesn't explain how they survived the initial struggle, i.e. how Stride managed to hang on to them whilst being pulled towards the street, spun round, and thrown on to the footway, at which point she would surely have thrown out her hands and spread her fingers in order to break the fall.