Why Buck's Row?

[MrBarnett]

Assuming there was a public house in the area, would it be open at that time of the morning?

Not legally.

[Pcdunn]

Position of Polly Nichols when attacked

Hmm? What forensic evidence suggests this.

Hmmm? Well, I suppose it is what I've absorbed from reading the discussions about the murders here. Jack seems to have generally attacked from the rear first, cutting the throat (and /or strangling his victims).
Certainly this passage from Casebook's page on Nichols does not make the answer clear:

Inquest testimony as reported in The Times:

"Five teeth were missing, and there was a slight laceration of the tongue. There was a bruise running along the lower part of the jaw on the right side of the face. That might have been caused by a blow from a fist or pressure from a thumb. There was a circular bruise on the left side of the face which also might have been inflicted by the pressure of the fingers. On the left side of the neck, about 1 in. below the jaw, there was an incision about 4 in. in length, and ran from a point immediately below the ear. On the same side, but an inch below, and commencing about 1 in. in front of it, was a circular incision, which terminated at a point about 3 in. below the right jaw. That incision completely severed all the tissues down to the vertebrae. The large vessels of the neck on both sides were severed. The incision was about 8 in. in length. the cuts must have been caused by a long-bladed knife, moderately sharp, and used with great violence. No blood was found on the breast, either of the body or the clothes. There were no injuries about the body until just about the lower part of the abdomen. Two or three inches from the left side was a wound running in a jagged manner. The wound was a very deep one, and the tissues were cut through. There were several incisions running across the abdomen. There were three or four similar cuts running downwards, on the right side, all of which had been caused by a knife which had been used violently and downwards. the injuries were form left to right and might have been done by a left handed person. All the injuries had been caused by the same instrument."

[Hair Bear]

Jack seems to have generally attacked from the rear first, cutting the throat (and /or strangling his victims).

On the contrary, his general MO was to first strangle from the front until dead or near dead, then slash their throat - hence the lack of arterial spray - and then mutilate.

[Hair Bear]

Originally Posted by Hair Bear View Post
Assuming there was a public house in the area, would it be open at that time of the morning?

Not legally.

If we assume that one was open illegally, I'm pretty sure the police would have been aware of any such activity (but chose to turn a blind eye) and on the night grilled all drinkers.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi Hair Bear.

I found this from James Mumford in The Echo, Sept.4, 1888>

"We all kill horses, but I'm left to attend the boilers when my mates are away at night. They always go up the top to the Grave Maurice" (a publichouse half a minute's walk from the slaughter-house, and about a minute's walk from the gateway of Essex Wharf).

"What time?"

"About twenty minutes after twelve they usually start."

"But the house closes then, does it not?"

"No, not till half-past..."

[MrBarnett]

Hi Hair Bear.

I found this from James Mumford in The Echo, Sept.4, 1888>

"We all kill horses, but I'm left to attend the boilers when my mates are away at night. They always go up the top to the Grave Maurice" (a publichouse half a minute's walk from the slaughter-house, and about a minute's walk from the gateway of Essex Wharf).

"What time?"

"About twenty minutes after twelve they usually start."

"But the house closes then, does it not?"

"No, not till half-past..."

But according to Tomkins, they didn't even get that far.

[MrBarnett]

If we assume that one was open illegally, I'm pretty sure the police would have been aware of any such activity (but chose to turn a blind eye) and on the night grilled all drinkers.

The police weren't exactly thorough in their investigation. Spratling admitted at the inquest that apart from the Green's they hadn't made enquiries at any of the houses in Buck's Row.

[MrBarnett]

But according to Tomkins, they didn't even get that far.

Some years previously the police had staked out the Fortune of War pub close by (what would become) Harrison, Barber's slaughter yard in Islington. They suspected the landlord was serving the slaughtermen out of hours, and sure enough they spotted him passing a gallon jug of ale to one of them at 10 a.m.

He got off with it, claiming that it was a regular payment that he gave them for knocking him up in the morning.

Makes you wonder whether Tomkins & co were in the habit of taking a jug back to the Winthrop Street yard.

[barnflatwyngarde]

The location of the first canonical murder has always slightly puzzled me.
The murder of Nichols has all the characteristics of a "blitz" attack.

The attack was carried out in the middle of a street with a very real chance of being seen by local residents, people coming to and from work at all hours of the day.

Is it possible that the murderer only felt confident enough to carry out the attack because he was very close to his place of residence, and could be home within a matter of seconds of committing the murder?

[jerryd]

Is it possible that the murderer only felt confident enough to carry out the attack because he was very close to his place of residence, and could be home within a matter of seconds of committing the murder?

I've had a similar thought, lately. The Browne and Eagle wool warehouse was located across the street from the Nichols crime scene. They also had warehouses in Backchurch Lane near the corner of Ellen Street and Backchurch Lane. This would be close to the crime scenes of Stride and the Pinchin torso.

[Elamarna]

I've had a similar thought, lately. The Browne and Eagle wool warehouse was located across the street from the Nichols crime scene. They also had warehouses in Backchurch Lane near the corner of Ellen Street and Backchurch Lane. This would be close to the crime scenes of Stride and the Pinchin torso.

Jerry

do we know if anyone we know is linked to them at all?

might be worth a check i guess?


Steve

[jerryd]

Jerry

do we know if anyone we know is linked to them at all?

might be worth a check i guess?


Steve

As of yet, no Steve. Israel Schwartz basically ran right toward the warehouse in Backchurch Lane after his witness of the Stride murder, though. Can't help think of Astrachan man, either. Maybe he was a wool merchant?

Somebody in the warehouse could easily observe the habits of the police beats and Lechmere/Paul's timing to work in the early hours, too.

[jerryd]

The Backchurch Lane location had two warehouses (directly across the street from each other) with a tunnel under the road and 3 bridges linking them.

[Joshua Rogan]

Wool warehouses, eh....are you thinking Jack was some sort of confused sheep shearer...Jack the Clipper?

[jerryd]

Wool warehouses, eh....are you thinking Jack was some sort of confused sheep shearer...Jack the Clipper?

Funny, Joshua.

After further review, one of the Browne and Eagle warehouses at 74 Backchurch Lane appears to have been directly across the street from the Pinchin arch. Two bodies found directly across from a Browne and Eagle wool warehouse.

See post #4 (Edward Stow) for Goad map showing the warehouse. http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=12731. It was indeed, RIGHT across the street from where the torso was deposited in Pinchin street. The plot thickens!