torso maps

[DrHopper]

[QUOTE=Rubyretro;221348]

]
I would bet that there were cavemen serial killers...

Thrag the Basher, Ug the Hitter...

[The Good Michael]

Mike
When I read, say ‘The Illiad’ or the Icelandic Sagas, I am struck at how similar the people were then to us now. The same jealousies, the same emotions, the same pettiness, the same sense of honour.
The human brain has not evolved much over the past 3,000 years – we are the same animal.
There are differences of course. People could not move about so much and so forth. Also man had not been living in unnatural city environments, cheek by jowl with other unfamiliar humans, for very long – in such numbers anyway.
That is why serial killing is a modern phenomenon.

Lechmere,

I agree with all this, though the Iliad and most of the sagas were fictional to a great degree. Generally, man hasn't change, with emotions being fairly constant, but as you say, situations and environments account for many differences and that is why modern profiling isn't really useful to this case unless we could go back in time and actually be there.

Mike

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi all,

Modern profiling has been of zero use to modern serial killer cases, let alone old ones. Having said that, we ALL profile. I think it was Rob House who made the observation once that when someone says Kozminski wasn't the Ripper, because he's not the 'type', then that person is profiling, because they're constructing a personality for the Ripper. We all do this and it can't be help. I would argue anyone incapable of doing this would be out of their depth studying an unsolved mystery. But crap like geographical profiling is strictly for amateurs.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

But crap like geographical profiling is strictly for amateurs.

Even in crap like geographical profiling there are tiny bits of seeds of truth (the way clichees are true), since these murders indeed were committed REAL close to each other. Including Smith and Tabram. I got even more aware of this fact while touring the sites 2 weeks ago, esp. at night, without crowds on the streets.

PS.: And for the record, I don't see much parallels between the Iliad peeps and us. Esp. pertaining to their rigid class distinctions and use of religion (AKA of multiple gods) to impersonate/duplicate their psyche etc..

RPS.: As for serial killers being an urban phenomenon, duh. Cuz it requires anonymity to have one. But London and Paris as THE biggest metropolis in the 19th century were already urbanized, featuring social randomness and anonymity (though obviously not as much as today). It's funny that I wrote a lot about this in my book, which deals with the aculturation of political massacres on the stage (after the French Revolution). And it took me almost 2 years to notice the parallelity of my book subject to Ripperology, lol. :-)

[Debra A]

Bump up.
Some useful maps done by Dave Gates posted from page 1 onwards.

This line of Dave's still makes me chuckle:

"Anyhow I had a dream that after the vote for the 1832 anatomy act a dissenter yelled out, "mark my words, in 41 years there will be faces washing up in limehouse!!"

[Abby Normal]

Thank you Debra! Very helpful!

[RedBundy13]

Multiple Serial Killers??

Question? So how many serial killers were working London in the late 1880's & early 1890's? But these murders weren't just your typical serial killer killings. Most of The Rippers and The Torso Murders crimes are on the EXTREME end. Meaning it isn't very often we come across a killer or killers that murder like this.There are of course a few cases where that kind of extreme mutilation took place but they are few and far between. Look at the attention Luka Rocco Magnotta the Canadian Killer got when he mailed some of his victims body parts. Yet when it happened in 1888 it was almost like business as usual. I would dare to say that most still believe it was a hoax by a medical student!?!? How many medical students do you know that would commit a felony like this? All for a hoax/joke?

I would be extremely surprised if it were two (or more) serial killers working London back then. Especially two that had that kind of comfort in the extreme mutilation of humans like Jack and the Torso Killer did (which IMO, are one and the same).

[Sam Flynn]

What happened to the Ripper victims was very different to what happened to the torso victims, and the pattern of the crimes was very different, both temporally and geographically.

[Kattrup]

. Yet when it happened in 1888 it was almost like business as usual. I would dare to say that most still believe it was a hoax by a medical student!?!? How many medical students do you know that would commit a felony like this? All for a hoax/joke?

Conversely, how many people believe the Lusk letter was mailed by a serial killer?

Not many, I’d wager. I forget the exact number, but in 1883/84 about 850 corpses were dissected by medical students in London alone.

Five years later the number would about the same or higher. So the police thought it not inconceivable that a kidney would go missing.

[Herlock Sholmes]

What happened to the Ripper victims was very different to what happened to the torso victims, and the pattern of the crimes was very different, both temporally and geographically.

I can hear the grinding of Scandinavian teeth Gareth

[RockySullivan]

What happened to the Ripper victims was very different to what happened to the torso victims, and the pattern of the crimes was very different, both temporally and geographically.

The myth of the rigged mo. I think the killer just varied his method. If you kill and remove organs quickly in the street you dont have to go through the whole process of getting someone to a location where you can then kill, mutilate, dismember, package and then go through the laborious and risky disposal process.

[Sam Flynn]

I don't do myths.

[John Wheat]

What happened to the Ripper victims was very different to what happened to the torso victims, and the pattern of the crimes was very different, both temporally and geographically.

Quite right Gareth. There's nothing to suggest the Ripper and Torso Killer were one and the same.

[Pcdunn]

I would agree, despite the argument by some on these boards that they are just that.

[RockySullivan]

Quite right Gareth. There's nothing to suggest the Ripper and Torso Killer were one and the same.

That's pure hogwash. There's quite a bit that suggests the cases could be related. For instance: two serial killers operating at the same time in the same territory both targeting female sex workers and removing organs and both leaving dead bodies or body parts in public. I think the most significant is that they both show a similar skill when it comes to mutilating the bodies. Would anyone care to disagree with me on this?