torso maps

[RockySullivan]

It’s a point that really shouldn’t require any emphasis Gareth. It’s about as obvious as it gets.

Except that if a witness saw the ripper the victim cant be traced backed to his identity Can we say the same for the torso killer? And that's why not its so simple of a solution, even for a genius like yourself.

[Sam Flynn]

Deserted building, Gareth? Which case was that?

Wasn't the site of Scotland Yard more-or-less deserted in the small hours? Forgive me if there was a squad of watchmen posted there 24/7.

[Sam Flynn]

Except that if a witness saw the ripper the victim cant be traced backed to his identity Can we say the same for the torso killer? And that's why not its so simple of a solution, even for a genius like yourself.

I don't think there's a genius alive who could make sense of what you posted there.

[RockySullivan]

Personally, I think the dismemberments were partly ritual, partly a means of disposal. And I don´t think the killer was all that interested in hiding the identities.

You're ritualizing something that's common in every dismemberment case. It's almost always done to aid dispersal and prevent identification. You're not helping the argument by claiming that this was a ritual dismemberment or disposal

[RockySullivan]

I don't think there's a genius alive who could make sense of what you posted there.

I guess not since i've had to explain the concept of witnesses to you repeatedly

[Herlock Sholmes]

"Overwhelmingly likely"? What is overwhelmingly likely is that when we have similar types of very rare damage in cases overlapping in time and geography, we have just the one killer. Some minds ARE closed to that logical conclusion, no matter what you say.

I do believe myself that the torso man had access to more or less proivate premises, or premises where he could rely on being left alone for periods of time. But the conclusion I draw from that is not that it makes the similarities go away, but instead that there will be a reason for why he used those premises only on certain occasions.

It is decidedly odd, but in no way as impossible as two killers replicating extremely odd measures on their respective victims.

To killers, with vastly different methods, killing under different circumstances, with vastly different outcomes for the corpse, show some similarities of mutilation in couple of the murders. Coincidence. This is not impossible however unlikely it may be when considering the history of crime. Everything that has occurred happened for the first time. This is it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Personally, I think the dismemberments were partly ritual, partly a means of disposal. And I don´t think the killer was all that interested in hiding the identities.

So Gypsy Fish is allowed to consult the crystal ball and come up with this. You keep talking about likelihood’s and logical conclusions yet your above statement is based on what?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Except that if a witness saw the ripper the victim cant be traced backed to his identity Can we say the same for the torso killer? And that's why not its so simple of a solution, even for a genius like yourself.

At least you’ve confirmed one thing for me. I looked at your earlier post with a little confusion. I thought “is it me or does this guy appear to have some kind of personal grudge against me?” Your ‘genius’ comment appears to show that I was correct.

I can’t recall but I can only assume that we’ve debated in the past and you’ve never forgiven me for disagreeing with you on some point.

I gave myself the name Herlock Sholmes because I’m a fan of Sherlock Holmes and Conan Doyle and not because I think that I’m a genius. You’re quite free to check every one of my 2000 or so posts to point out where I proclaimed my genius. In fact, even a post or two ago, I admitted that I could be wrong. Something that certain other posters appear loathe to admit. I have an opinion and I give it. If people feel that I’m wrong they are free to say so. Pointless stroppiness gets us nowhere.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It has not been missed or disregarded. When Debra Arif read Hebbert, she immediately pointed to the possibility, years ago. Before, that, Hebbert was not studied by Ripper students, and so the conclusions could not be drawn.
Once Debra Arif pointed it out, it was met by massive criticism that was never grounded in any useful facts.
Since that, many people have discovered the value of Debras work, whle others have hidden their heads in the sand like ostridges.
It was only a few months ago that Gareth admitted that the Torso killer took the uterus out of Jacksons body. Before that, he apparently did not accept it - God only knows on what grounds. Can you think of any?

That should provide you with a useful picture of the proceedings. Please don´t say that it is only now that the penny has dropped.

I won’t. I’ll say, even now the penny hasn’t dropped. Again you accuse everyone that disagrees with you of hiding their heads in the sand. Therefore of being dishonest. Therefore I have no issue with saying that you only pursue this so passionately because you believe that you can tie this in to Lechmere

[Herlock Sholmes]

I guess not since i've had to explain the concept of witnesses to you repeatedly

I too, a self-proclaimed genius, don’t understand the point that you were trying to make with that last post by the way.

[John Wheat]

Hi John,

I certainly feel that Fish believes that he’s found ‘something’ that in some way links Lechmere with the Torso Killings (perhaps some disused Pickfords building that he ‘might’ have had access to?). If this is the case he’s yet to reveal it. Perhaps he was hoping that the majority would agree that the ripper and TK were one and the same before he reveals?

It will be something extremely flimsy such as a relative of Lechmere living near where one body part was found.

[jerryd]

Wasn't the site of Scotland Yard more-or-less deserted in the small hours? Forgive me if there was a squad of watchmen posted there 24/7.

Deserted in the small hours, yes. But you didn’t say that. In my mind if, in the context of risk, there was a killer depositing body parts in a deserted building or one that was currently under construction, was to be the headquarters for law enforcement and was smack dab in the middle of a large metrpolis, I would say there was quite a bit of risk.

I feel the risk involved in the ripper murders was extremely high, also. So much in fact, I find it hard to believe the killer was so lucky. Risk is risk though if the possibility of the noose hangs above your head.

[Sam Flynn]

Deserted in the small hours, yes. But you didn’t say that.

Shorthand, that's all, Jerry. When the torso killer(s) disposed of the body parts, I very much doubt that they'd have chosen times when the banks of the Thames or the Scotland Yard building site were thronged with people.

[jerryd]

Shorthand, that's all, Jerry. When the torso killer(s) disposed of the body parts, I very much doubt that they'd have chosen times when the banks of the Thames or the Scotland Yard building site were thronged with people.

Got it, Gareth. 😀

[Herlock Sholmes]

Shorthand, that's all, Jerry. When the torso killer(s) disposed of the body parts, I very much doubt that they'd have chosen times when the banks of the Thames or the Scotland Yard building site were thronged with people.

I’ve now got this image of the Torso Killer edging his way through the crowd on boat race day carrying a leg wrapped in paper.

“Coming through please. Thank you. Hey look at at that amazing thing over there.”

Heads turn.

Splash!

“Enjoy the race.”