Martha’s final wound

[Fisherman]

Ive checked my notes to see if that dimension is mentioned in specific terms and it isnt, which means that my statement is based upon the description with a logical interpretation of the phrasing.

"In his opinion the wounds were caused by a knife, or some such instrument, but there was a wound on the chest bone which could not have been caused by a knife. An ordinary penknife could have made most of the wounds, but the puncture in the chest must have been made with a sword bayonet or a dagger."

A penknife blade width has obvious limitations, for one, because even folded it still needs to be pocket sized. I assumed that the way the wounds size was differentiated was because of the width, not the length of the blade, because penknives (folding knives) did and still do come in lengths almost equal to the length of the average dagger.

Of course Killeen definitely ruled out the possibility that it was just the one blade. But there´s Ripperology for you - those who never even saw the wounds take it upon themselves to call Killeen wrong. A man who measured all the stab wounds and had all the material at hand.
It´s totally laughable.

[The Rookie Detective]

Bump up for an interesting thread

[FISHY1118]

Its unlikely Martha was ripper victim.

[The Rookie Detective]

Has it ever been definitively ascertained that Martha received the stab wound to her heart either AFTER or BEFORE she was repeatedly stabbed elsewhere over her torso?

Initially it would appear that the general consensus was that she received the stab wound through her sternum and into the heart as a final wound to finish her off, but is there any evidence to suggest the opposite occurred?

Could her killer have stabbed her in the heart first and then seeing her drop to the floor, then chose to commence post mortem stabs over her torso?

In other words; was this the first time the Ripper had the chance to inflict post mortem mutilation in the form of multiple stabs to her throat, breasts and torso?

The doctor seemed to imply that she received the 38 stabs before the final stab into the chest that then pierced her heart I.e. she received the first 38 stabs while she was still alive.

However, perhaps this can also work if he initially stabbed her in the heart and then seeing her dying on the floor, he then continued to stab her viciously as she was literally dying. So technically she was still alive when she received the other 38 stabs, but from the perspective of the killer, he was inflicting ferocious stabs in his belief that she was dead.

But there's also the idea that he did stab her 38 times, but the 39th stab having hit the sternum, then caused the blade to snap or splinter as the force rebounded by hitting hard bone. This may have in turn caused the blade to retract backwards and cut his own hand.

If the killer was inadvertently cut by his own blade hitting Tabram's sternum, then it could have caused a different track through the body as it retracted; thus giving the impression that 2 different blades were used instead of just 1.

This in turn would perhaps explain why the killer then resorted to cuts and slices, rather than the more risky stabbing motion that obliterated Tabram's torso.

Perhaps the killer injured himself when stabbing Tabram in the heart. If that's the case, then I wonder if there are any hospital records of a man who was treated for a hand injury within 24 hours of the murder?

The overall choice to incorporate overkill with multiple victims, does suggest that Tabram was indeed a Ripper victim. Her body posed in almost identical fashion to Nichols just 3 weeks later.

Did the killer of Tabram require those 3 weeks to recover from injuring himself when stabbing her, and did this force him to alter and modify his M.O. accordingly?

There are perhaps more clues to the murder of Tabram than is realised.

Lots to ponder.

[BooksbyBJThompson]

My thoughts, such as they are, say the killer did not leave the scene until Martha was dead.

In predatory attacks, the dopamine "high" overtakes, the bloodlust rules.

Whatever the killer had on his person before the attack is what he used.

His need to control through killing could never be interrupted to leave and return for a separate weapon.

It would be like a heroine junkie only shooting up half a needle, and getting up to do something else, then shooting the rest.

Addiction, even the need to kill, once began, can never be stopped mid-stream.

[The Rookie Detective]

My thoughts, such as they are, say the killer did not leave the scene until Martha was dead.

In predatory attacks, the dopamine "high" overtakes, the bloodlust rules.

Whatever the killer had on his person before the attack is what he used.

His need to control through killing could never be interrupted to leave and return for a separate weapon.

It would be like a heroine junkie only shooting up half a needle, and getting up to do something else, then shooting the rest.

Addiction, even the need to kill, once began, can never be stopped mid-stream.

Agreed.


The attack on Tabram was brutal and savage, and more significantly; he used overkill.

It is this precise application of overkill that provides us with the key clue as to Tabram having been a Ripper victim.

The Ripper launches a frenzied onslaught in a sudden blitz attack and Tabram doesn't have the time to know what's going on.

I believe that the killer initially stabbed her in the throat directly from the front multiple times. This was enough for incapacitate Tabram from calling out for help. The killer then wrestled her to the floor and continued to repeatedly stab her as he knelt on her.

But when he stabbed her in the chest, the blade hit the sternum and the force of the blade hitting hard bone caused it to get stuck in her chest. As the killer tried to retrieve the blade, it altered the trajectory of the path of the blade, causing the pathway to expand and take on an irregular pathway. This then appeared from the doctor's perspective as the killer having 2 separate blades with which to attack her with.

A killer using 2 blades in that context of a quick and sudden blitz attack, is both impractical and nonsensical.


The killer had 1 blade, which when impacting into hard bone, caught the killer off guard.


The blade may have even retracted due to the impact of hitting the sternum and then cut the killer's hand as it rebounded back.

IMO, the final cut was the stab to the chest, but crucially; it wasn't necessarily his intention to stop there.


From murdering Tabram, the Ripper learnt the benefits of cutting and slicing, instead of stabbing his victims.


He changed his M.O accordingly and was able to modify his technique to suit his needs and desires.