Ripper Victim?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Shelley

The following is taken from the Evening News coverage of the Tabram inquest:

Dr. Kaleene stated that he was called to the deceased and found her dead. He examined the body and found 39 punctured wounds on the body and legs. There were no less than nine in the throat and 17 in the breast. She appeared to have been dead about three hours. The body was well nourished. He had since made a post-mortem examination, and found the left lung penetrated in five places, and the right lung in two places. The heart had been penetrated, but only in one place. Otherwise it was quite healthy. The liver was healthy but penetrated in five places, and the spleen was penetrated in two places. The stomach was healthy but penetrated in six places.

[Jon Guy]

As explained. Martha's MO was different because Jack targeted the body through clothing.

Hi Jeff

Found the following article that shows that Tabram`s chest was exposed as the dress had been pulled open. If we consider that the throat and chest took the brunt then not many of the stabs would have been through clothing:

"Police-constable Thomas Barrett, 26 H, was the next witness. He deposed that on Tuesday, August 7th, he was on duty about quarter to 5, and his attention was called to deceased by last witness. He went to the spot, and found a woman lying on her back in a pool of blood. She was dead. He sent another constable for a doctor, and on the arrival of Dr. Keeling, of Brick-lane, he pronounced her dead. There were no marks on the staircase. The body was not moved before the doctor arrived. Her hands were lying by her side, clenched up, and there was nothing in them. Her clothes were torn and completely disarranged, the bosom of the dress being torn away"

[Malcolm X]

Hi Shelley

The following is taken from the Evening News coverage of the Tabram inquest:

Dr. Kaleene stated that he was called to the deceased and found her dead. He examined the body and found 39 punctured wounds on the body and legs. There were no less than nine in the throat and 17 in the breast.

SORRY NO, none of this is mentioned here on this website in the victims list or in Sugden's book.

[Jon Guy]

SORRY NO,

Which bit don`t you get, Malcolm ?

[Ally]

Malcolm,

Sugden's book is decades old. Not everything ever written or known about the victims will be found in the short victim's section of this site.

There is lots of other information out there that will not be found in those two sources. That doesn't make it inaccurate information.

[Malcolm X]

Which bit don`t you get, Malcolm ?

i would've thought it was obvious.........no neck wounds mentioned here or in Sugden's bookl!

[Malcolm X]

Malcolm,

Sugden's book is decades old. Not everything ever written or known about the victims will be found in the short victim's section of this site.

There is lots of other information out there that will not be found in those two sources. That doesn't make it inaccurate information.

i doubt it; It would have been here in his book...you simply can not miss 9 wounds to the throat and it is not mentioned at all.........PERIOD!
...finally, Sugden's book is not decades old...it's from 1994

this is speculation only..... unless you can give me concrete proof, please do if you can and also reference your source.

[Ally]

In the Tabram inquest, the doctor only mentions I believe about 20 of the wounds. Considering that the heart wound was the one singled out as being cause of death and only organ stabs were recorded, it is not a matter of them being missed, it is a matter of them just not being considered worthy of being reported as they weren't the killing blow along with the other dozen wounds that weren't reported.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff

Found the following article that shows that Tabram`s chest was exposed as the dress had been pulled open. If we consider that the throat and chest took the brunt then not many of the stabs would have been through clothing:

"Police-constable Thomas Barrett, 26 H, was the next witness. He deposed that on Tuesday, August 7th, he was on duty about quarter to 5, and his attention was called to deceased by last witness. He went to the spot, and found a woman lying on her back in a pool of blood. She was dead. He sent another constable for a doctor, and on the arrival of Dr. Keeling, of Brick-lane, he pronounced her dead. There were no marks on the staircase. The body was not moved before the doctor arrived. Her hands were lying by her side, clenched up, and there was nothing in them. Her clothes were torn and completely disarranged, the bosom of the dress being torn away"

Fantastic find John and most interesting. I'd love to know how the clothes were torn? With knife with hands pulling-ripping. I wonder if the torn clothing was linked to the final heart thrust?

Thank you. You learn something every day as they say.

Pirate

[Shelley]

SORRY NO, none of this is mentioned here on this website in the victims list or in Sugden's book.

Hi Malcom X,

Yes, you are quite right Malcom none of this is mentioned in the Victims first page list, or in Sugden's book. However there is something about a PC Neil stating some details, an inquest report in the newspaper about him seeing blood oozing from her throat, which isn't the same as Nicholls with little or no blood around that corpse. Forget the skirts up in the air and legs splayed ( it's reflexes at work either just before death or after....In short it doesn't mean much at all...I like Sam's Jokes about it ' Yes Dave & also of intercourse having taken place). It may well be from a decent conversational poster Jon Guy who says there are nine such puncture wounds to Tabram's throat.

[Chava]

The papers all cherry-picked what they reported from the inquest. Even though it appears verbatim it rarely is. I discovered this on checking all the newspaper accounts of Kelly's inquest. The East London Advertiser had some information that I consider important that no other paper had in that inquest.

Thanks for finding this info, 'decent conversational poster' John Guy!

[Malcolm X]

In the Tabram inquest, the doctor only mentions I believe about 20 of the wounds. Considering that the heart would was the one singled out as being cause of death and only organ stabs were recorded, it is not a matter of them being missed, it is a matter of them just not being considered worthy of being reported as they weren't the killing blow along with the other dozen wounds that weren't reported.

he conducted a proper post mortem, he mentions at least 22 stab wounds, he would've mentioned neck wounds too; if they were there.

[Jon Guy]

It`s not obvious, Malcolm, because it is here on this site and in Sugden ?

The article from the Evening News can be found under Press Reports on the menu on the left of your screen, and then look for Evening News. As it is covering the inquest, you should be looking at the news around the 9th Aug.

We have to rely on police reports and the press coverage of the inquest for details as no inquest papers survive. The pressmen would add or miss various details as they wrote their reports.

The stab wounds to the neck are mentioned in Sugden under the chapter "Mysterious Murder In George Yard".

[Shelley]

Hi Shelley

The following is taken from the Evening News coverage of the Tabram inquest:

Dr. Kaleene stated that he was called to the deceased and found her dead. He examined the body and found 39 punctured wounds on the body and legs. There were no less than nine in the throat and 17 in the breast. She appeared to have been dead about three hours. The body was well nourished. He had since made a post-mortem examination, and found the left lung penetrated in five places, and the right lung in two places. The heart had been penetrated, but only in one place. Otherwise it was quite healthy. The liver was healthy but penetrated in five places, and the spleen was penetrated in two places. The stomach was healthy but penetrated in six places.

JG,
Thankyou, for this post, i will have a good read in other sections on casebook and see if any of my old dusty books has anything at all in them.
Tabram was in a pool of blood though & Nicholls, Chapman, Eddowes were not and a different mind is at work in frenzied stabbing, to that of time spared from a killer bent on ripping a corpse up.

I see Queen Looney has posted again, or rather i don't see it ha! I would ask for the tin-foiled crown to put on these, only if i need a check-up at the psychiatric ward. Not!

[perrymason]

So, How do clothes stay arranged and unripped when they have been on someone stabbed through the clothes 39 times? There has never been an issue whether Martha looked as if she had been in a scrap. That is not the case with the first and next 3 attributed Ripper victims.

Its a non starter for proposing anything other than the knife attack disheveled her and ruined her clothes.

And stabbed throats on a woman struggling upright, and slit throats on women who were not struggling and lying down, are not alike.

Best regards