Vote Here II

[Tom_Wescott]

Regarding constables, there's no reason to expect that she would have approached them. Her intent was to go home, not to a police station or hospital. It was her housemates who needled her to go to a doctor. Why on earth would they approach a constable when they were on their way to the hospital? Which need was more eminent in the minds o the women? They could always make a statement at the hospital. As it happened, The surgeon in charge was only 22 years old, was in regular talks with the police that evening, and chose not to mention Emma. So no statement was taken. Had it been, we'd likely know a bit more. In short, there's nothing suspicious about why she didn't talk to a constable, particularly if she didn't know the identity of her attackers.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Dave, Emma Smith didn't lie in the street for hours, plus her timing could fit if she was used to walking long distance (which can be done even when injured).
As for Ada Wilson, Mark Ripper recently discovered that she was attacked again late in life by her SO. Very plausibly her account of her attack was partly fabricated. She also most probably lied about her age.

(À part ça, j'espére que tu vas bien.)

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Deevs,

What is it that the timing does not fit? And she was not lying on the street. She would have been well out of sight of anyone on the pavement, and likely unconscious, so quite silent.

I like Simon's idea about the police, but Emma would have been the absolute last person you could expect to levy blackmail against. I also think it likely she would have spoken about this to her housemates, to whom she told all of her most embarrassing exploits.

Simon,

Emma Smith was almost certainly killed by the same people who killed Martha Tabram. And that's not a retro-fit, that was the police consensus at the time. It only changed after the Chapman murder. And it never changed for Reid, for what that may be worth.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

None of them, Simon. I don't believe Emma's story because the timing doesn't fit, because there was no witness of her lying in the street for hours, no blood found, and because what has been done has nothing to do with a street robbery.
I don't believe Ada Wilson's account of her attack either, and choose to believe Miss Bierman instead.
Unfortunately, in Emma's case, there was no Bierman around.

[Simon Wood]

Hi DVV,

Who do you prefer to believe—

Emma Smith, who, as she lay dying, told of being attacked by "some men", or Walter Dew, who in 1938 ascribed her death to a lone nutbag who five months after her death would become known to the world as Jack the Ripper?

Regards,

Simon

[DVV]

That she was a JtR victim, I mean.

[Simon Wood]

Hi DVV,

Which particular Dew opinion would that be?

Regards,

Simon

[DVV]

She acknowledged to the doctor that she was a prostitute
Tom Wescott

Hi Tom. Did she ?

[DVV]

And perhaps the blunt object which ruptured her peritoneum had been a truncheon. All of which might explain Chief Inspector West reporting that the "whole of the police on duty deny all knowledge of the occurrence."
Who knows? Anything's possible.
Simon

Hi Simon, everything's possible but....euh....comment dire ? Isn't that a bit too much ? Would you put Dew's opinion in a cover-up category as well ?
If so, by the way, the police had better to confirm Emma's story.

edit : blackmailing Emma Smith ? Rather dubious, imo.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Curious,

Those PCs I could find were not named or numbered, and, sadly for our purposes, had been dismissed/had resigned/were fined prior to April 1888.

Regards,

Simon

[curious]

Hi All,

Prior to April 1888 there had been much-discussed accusations of police levying blackmail against prostitutes, so perhaps Emma Smith had been attacked by a group of policemen. This might explain why she couldn't [or wouldn't?] describe her assailants. And perhaps the blunt object which ruptured her peritoneum had been a truncheon. All of which might explain Chief Inspector West reporting that the "whole of the police on duty deny all knowledge of the occurrence."

Who knows? Anything's possible. And it sure beats later efforts to retro-fit Emma Smith's death as the work of the lone maniac who murdered Martha Tabram and Polly Nichols.

Regards,

Simon

Hi, Simon,
Very interesting.

Any names for the policemen involved?

Thanks,

curious

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Prior to April 1888 there had been much-discussed accusations of police levying blackmail against prostitutes, so perhaps Emma Smith had been attacked by a group of policemen. This might explain why she couldn't [or wouldn't?] describe her assailants. And perhaps the blunt object which ruptured her peritoneum had been a truncheon. All of which might explain Chief Inspector West reporting that the "whole of the police on duty deny all knowledge of the occurrence."

Who knows? Anything's possible. And it sure beats later efforts to retro-fit Emma Smith's death as the work of the lone maniac who murdered Martha Tabram and Polly Nichols.

Regards,

Simon

[Bridewell]

I thought 'a gang of men' to be most likely and voted accordingly. That is, after all, what she claimed and, like Tom, I can't see any reason for Emma to have lied. I just wonder why she was so reluctant to involve the police as, according to Reid:

"She would have passed a number of Pc's en route but none was informed of the incident or asked to render assistance".

It's not a pleasant thought, but perhaps she did approach one or more officers and was taken for just another troublesome drunk. I hope not.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi all,

There was no man in Emma's life, so no one to 'cover' for. She acknowledged to the doctor that she was a prostitute, so had absolutely no reason to lie regarding her attack to cover for her soliciting. As for a 'gang' of men, she saw three men on the street, but could only speak to having been assaulted by two men. The third man may have been present and participated, may have stood watch for the other, or may have had nothing to do with the assault at all. I haven't participated in the poll, because although there's little doubt at all in my mind that she was telling the truth, I can't yet state a firm belief regarding the participation of Jack.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Hi Miakaal

I do not believe that Smith or Tabram for that matter were JtR vics. However, what is really weird is why in '88 there were suddenly all these attacks on the fallen woman. Could this have inspired the others?

Indeed. But then why not the same man - from Horsnell to Kelly ?