Vote Here II

[Lechmere]

Some comments about possible similarities between the attack on Tabram and that on Smith made me think - whether there was an internal wound on Tabram's groin.
We are reliant on the scant details provided by Smith for information as to what happened to her. But possibly she lied.
If she was attacked by a loan assailant while soliciting, would she have admitted this, if perhaps she thought she would recover and did not think the wound would prove fatal?
Would she perhaps have attempted to cover up the nature of the attack by claiming she was the victim of an unprovoked gang attack?

[curious4]

Emma Smith

Hello Stan and Obs,

I think you are being a little hard on Emma here. She was very badly injured (think not so much red hot poker as red hot catheter here, male equivalant, and even then not as bad) and was almost certainly suffering from the effects of septic shock, as well as her injuries, so it is not surprising that her testimony was unclear and vague. Most probably terrified that her attackers would find her and attack her again, so from her point of view not identifying them was a good idea. Someone in her position wouldn't be high up on the list when investigating crimes.

I can't see her having a pimp - a percentage on 3d wouldn't buy much "bling" (metaphorically speaking) and if she did, the last thing they would want to do would be to make her unfit for purpose (trying to be delicate here). Or being ashamed of what she was doing - a little late for that.

My bet would be that she knew that whoever attacked her would stand a very good chance of getting away with it.

Best wishes,

C4

[sdreid]

In my opinion she made the story up to detract from the fact that she was soliciting. Terrible indictment on my behalf I know, but the consequences could have meant a few weeks in the slammer. That's if she'd survived of course.

Yes, either that or she was protecting an acquaintance, a relative, the relative of a friend or someone she feared.

[Observer]

Hi Stan

I'd aree. In my opinion she made the story up to detract from the fact that she was soliciting. Terrible indictment on my behalf I know, but the consequences could have meant a few weeks in the slammer. That's if she'd survived of course.

Regards

Observer

[sdreid]

Probably because she made up the story.

[curious4]

Nineteen

Hello,

One thing about this attack I wonder over is why she was so shocked by the fact that one of her attackers was only aged about nineteen. She lived in area where vice and violence were commonplace at all ages. So why was this different?

Best wishes,
C4

[sdreid]

Should be mentioned that Wednesday is the 125th anniversary of the attack on Emma with her death the following day. R.I.P.

[sdreid]

Jack and his gang

[mklhawley]

Plus real curious to read Tom's chapter on the Emma Smith case when his book is finally done. (In 2030? Lol. Or maybe in 2013.)

Tom, if you need help editing, give me a call.

[mariab]

Same here about my "reading list", David, but got 2 articles on deadline to complete for next week (but 2 VERY understanding editors, and a bunch of procrastinating colleagues/authors, lol).

Plus real curious to read Tom's chapter on the Emma Smith case when his book is finally done. (In 2030? Lol. Or maybe in 2013.)

(As for the "bonne bouffe", you should have seen the monstrous prime rib we had last night, could be cut with a spoon too. No Ripper skills required.)

[DVV]

I have Ripp 125, Maria, but have not read it yet. Shame, I know. Anyway, Bierman's account is crystal-clear imo. Remember she said the man seemed to unlock the door "as if not accustomed to do so".
Enjoy the bonne bouffe, my dear !

[mariab]

Hi Maria, hope you're fine too my dear.
Why "partly fabricated"? Would it mean that Rose Bierman had "partly fabricated" her own account as well ?
The matter is pretty clear in my opinion.

Salut David, I'm fine, crazy hours + taking care of the details for different (job-related) trips, but real fine. Plus am having a great time with some French peeps here in Berlin. (De la bonne bouffe inclue!)

You might be interested to check out Mark Ripper's article on Ada Wilson recently published in Ripperologist #125, where he suspects her attack was a domestic, esp. since it was a documented, repeated event in her life. (If this was the same Ada Wilson, which she appears to have been.)
No, doesn't appear like Rose Bierman lied, plus she was not too fond of Ada Wilson as a tenant. There's a possibility that Wilson lied about her age, presented herself as older and a married woman (to her attacking SO) to appear more "respectable". Which might explain the discrepancies in her age as referred in the press.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Deevs,

I've read all the news reports of the inquest I can get my hands on and am left with the impression that the doctor and Emma discussed her being a prostitute, prompting her to offer (or him to ask) that she had not solicited the men who attacked her.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Hi Tom

Hi Deevs,
And she was not lying on the street. She would have been well out of sight of anyone on the pavement, and likely unconscious, so quite silent.

Then she was standing unconscious ?

I like Simon's idea about the police, but Emma would have been the absolute last person you could expect to levy blackmail against.

True.

Emma Smith was almost certainly killed by the same people who killed Martha Tabram. And that's not a retro-fit, that was the police consensus at the time. It only changed after the Chapman murder. And it never changed for Reid, for what that may be worth.

True (again). I'd just say "man" instead of "people".

But Tom, more importantly, have you got evidence that she confessed to be a prostitute to the doctor ? That's what interests me there, in case I'd have missed something.

[DVV]

As for Ada Wilson, Mark Ripper recently discovered that she was attacked again late in life by her SO. Very plausibly her account of her attack was partly fabricated.
(À part ça, j'espére que tu vas bien.)

Hi Maria, hope you're fine too my dear.

Why "partly fabricated" ? Would it mean that Rose Bierman had "partly fabricated" her own account as well ?
The matter is pretty clear in my opinion.