Vote Here II

[mklhawley]

Plus real curious to read Tom's chapter on the Emma Smith case when his book is finally done. (In 2030? Lol. Or maybe in 2013.)

Tom, if you need help editing, give me a call.

[sdreid]

Jack and his gang

[sdreid]

Should be mentioned that Wednesday is the 125th anniversary of the attack on Emma with her death the following day. R.I.P.

[curious4]

Nineteen

Hello,

One thing about this attack I wonder over is why she was so shocked by the fact that one of her attackers was only aged about nineteen. She lived in area where vice and violence were commonplace at all ages. So why was this different?

Best wishes,
C4

[sdreid]

Probably because she made up the story.

[Observer]

Hi Stan

I'd aree. In my opinion she made the story up to detract from the fact that she was soliciting. Terrible indictment on my behalf I know, but the consequences could have meant a few weeks in the slammer. That's if she'd survived of course.

Regards

Observer

[sdreid]

In my opinion she made the story up to detract from the fact that she was soliciting. Terrible indictment on my behalf I know, but the consequences could have meant a few weeks in the slammer. That's if she'd survived of course.

Yes, either that or she was protecting an acquaintance, a relative, the relative of a friend or someone she feared.

[curious4]

Emma Smith

Hello Stan and Obs,

I think you are being a little hard on Emma here. She was very badly injured (think not so much red hot poker as red hot catheter here, male equivalant, and even then not as bad) and was almost certainly suffering from the effects of septic shock, as well as her injuries, so it is not surprising that her testimony was unclear and vague. Most probably terrified that her attackers would find her and attack her again, so from her point of view not identifying them was a good idea. Someone in her position wouldn't be high up on the list when investigating crimes.

I can't see her having a pimp - a percentage on 3d wouldn't buy much "bling" (metaphorically speaking) and if she did, the last thing they would want to do would be to make her unfit for purpose (trying to be delicate here). Or being ashamed of what she was doing - a little late for that.

My bet would be that she knew that whoever attacked her would stand a very good chance of getting away with it.

Best wishes,

C4

[Lechmere]

Some comments about possible similarities between the attack on Tabram and that on Smith made me think - whether there was an internal wound on Tabram's groin.
We are reliant on the scant details provided by Smith for information as to what happened to her. But possibly she lied.
If she was attacked by a loan assailant while soliciting, would she have admitted this, if perhaps she thought she would recover and did not think the wound would prove fatal?
Would she perhaps have attempted to cover up the nature of the attack by claiming she was the victim of an unprovoked gang attack?

[caz]

Sounds a reasonable possibility to me, Lech.

One wonders what she would have said if the attack had happened later that year, while the ripper murders were making the headlines - or what she would have made of the murders had she survived back in April.

Love,

Caz
X

[curious4]

"Gang"

I believe that what she actually said was that she was attacked by two or three men. Would that constitute a gang? How many do you need to call it a gang of men?

Best wishes,
C4

[caz]

I would say any more than two, joining in the action, could be called a gang.

But there are shades of grey as with anything else. Often you get one or two who actually commit the offences, with one or more merely observing - either getting their jollies that way or wanting nothing to do with it.

If Emma Smith was telling the truth about one of the men (three I believe) being a teenager, who knows? The youngster could have stood back horrified at what he was witnessing. Or high on the excitement of it all, was he the one who did all the damage to 'impress' the older ones?

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

Phoenix Park

Hello Caroline. Your speculation is sound.

Actually, something like that happened at Phoenix Park. Of the group of assassins (four who actually accosted the duo) only two wielded knives. But nineteen year old Tim Kelly (note the age) was ineffective and Joe Brady did most of the cutting.

Cheers.
LC

[MrBarnett]

Hi,

I've just voted for 'a gang of men', by which I mean a criminal gang and not just a bunch of rowdies looking for some post-pub entertainment. I think that's what the police initially had in mind because of the horrific nature of the injuries - a local extortion mob, sending a message to the local prostitutes that they meant business.

The murder of Tabram may have strengthened that belief, but beyond that I think they would have cause to rethink and consider the possibility of a crazed individual ( or individuals ) at which point Smith, by her own testimony, had eliminated herself from being a JTR victim.

MrB

[Lechmere]

There is a spatial problem with more than two people doing the damage to one person. If there were four assailants, unless they 'politely' moved out of each others way to give each a bite of the cherry, which is unlikely in the heat of the moment, some would naturally barely get a look in. Some will always be more aggressive and enthusiastic than others.

I am glad no one picked me up for spelling lone as loan.