Vote Here II

[DVV]

And perhaps the blunt object which ruptured her peritoneum had been a truncheon. All of which might explain Chief Inspector West reporting that the "whole of the police on duty deny all knowledge of the occurrence."
Who knows? Anything's possible.
Simon

Hi Simon, everything's possible but....euh....comment dire ? Isn't that a bit too much ? Would you put Dew's opinion in a cover-up category as well ?
If so, by the way, the police had better to confirm Emma's story.

edit : blackmailing Emma Smith ? Rather dubious, imo.

[DVV]

She acknowledged to the doctor that she was a prostitute
Tom Wescott

Hi Tom. Did she ?

[Simon Wood]

Hi DVV,

Which particular Dew opinion would that be?

Regards,

Simon

[DVV]

That she was a JtR victim, I mean.

[Simon Wood]

Hi DVV,

Who do you prefer to believe—

Emma Smith, who, as she lay dying, told of being attacked by "some men", or Walter Dew, who in 1938 ascribed her death to a lone nutbag who five months after her death would become known to the world as Jack the Ripper?

Regards,

Simon

[DVV]

None of them, Simon. I don't believe Emma's story because the timing doesn't fit, because there was no witness of her lying in the street for hours, no blood found, and because what has been done has nothing to do with a street robbery.
I don't believe Ada Wilson's account of her attack either, and choose to believe Miss Bierman instead.
Unfortunately, in Emma's case, there was no Bierman around.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Deevs,

What is it that the timing does not fit? And she was not lying on the street. She would have been well out of sight of anyone on the pavement, and likely unconscious, so quite silent.

I like Simon's idea about the police, but Emma would have been the absolute last person you could expect to levy blackmail against. I also think it likely she would have spoken about this to her housemates, to whom she told all of her most embarrassing exploits.

Simon,

Emma Smith was almost certainly killed by the same people who killed Martha Tabram. And that's not a retro-fit, that was the police consensus at the time. It only changed after the Chapman murder. And it never changed for Reid, for what that may be worth.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Dave, Emma Smith didn't lie in the street for hours, plus her timing could fit if she was used to walking long distance (which can be done even when injured).
As for Ada Wilson, Mark Ripper recently discovered that she was attacked again late in life by her SO. Very plausibly her account of her attack was partly fabricated. She also most probably lied about her age.

(À part ça, j'espére que tu vas bien.)

[Tom_Wescott]

Regarding constables, there's no reason to expect that she would have approached them. Her intent was to go home, not to a police station or hospital. It was her housemates who needled her to go to a doctor. Why on earth would they approach a constable when they were on their way to the hospital? Which need was more eminent in the minds o the women? They could always make a statement at the hospital. As it happened, The surgeon in charge was only 22 years old, was in regular talks with the police that evening, and chose not to mention Emma. So no statement was taken. Had it been, we'd likely know a bit more. In short, there's nothing suspicious about why she didn't talk to a constable, particularly if she didn't know the identity of her attackers.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

As for Ada Wilson, Mark Ripper recently discovered that she was attacked again late in life by her SO. Very plausibly her account of her attack was partly fabricated.
(À part ça, j'espére que tu vas bien.)

Hi Maria, hope you're fine too my dear.

Why "partly fabricated" ? Would it mean that Rose Bierman had "partly fabricated" her own account as well ?
The matter is pretty clear in my opinion.

[DVV]

Hi Tom

Hi Deevs,
And she was not lying on the street. She would have been well out of sight of anyone on the pavement, and likely unconscious, so quite silent.

Then she was standing unconscious ?

I like Simon's idea about the police, but Emma would have been the absolute last person you could expect to levy blackmail against.

True.

Emma Smith was almost certainly killed by the same people who killed Martha Tabram. And that's not a retro-fit, that was the police consensus at the time. It only changed after the Chapman murder. And it never changed for Reid, for what that may be worth.

True (again). I'd just say "man" instead of "people".

But Tom, more importantly, have you got evidence that she confessed to be a prostitute to the doctor ? That's what interests me there, in case I'd have missed something.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Deevs,

I've read all the news reports of the inquest I can get my hands on and am left with the impression that the doctor and Emma discussed her being a prostitute, prompting her to offer (or him to ask) that she had not solicited the men who attacked her.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Hi Maria, hope you're fine too my dear.
Why "partly fabricated"? Would it mean that Rose Bierman had "partly fabricated" her own account as well ?
The matter is pretty clear in my opinion.

Salut David, I'm fine, crazy hours + taking care of the details for different (job-related) trips, but real fine. Plus am having a great time with some French peeps here in Berlin. (De la bonne bouffe inclue!)

You might be interested to check out Mark Ripper's article on Ada Wilson recently published in Ripperologist #125, where he suspects her attack was a domestic, esp. since it was a documented, repeated event in her life. (If this was the same Ada Wilson, which she appears to have been.)
No, doesn't appear like Rose Bierman lied, plus she was not too fond of Ada Wilson as a tenant. There's a possibility that Wilson lied about her age, presented herself as older and a married woman (to her attacking SO) to appear more "respectable". Which might explain the discrepancies in her age as referred in the press.

[DVV]

I have Ripp 125, Maria, but have not read it yet. Shame, I know. Anyway, Bierman's account is crystal-clear imo. Remember she said the man seemed to unlock the door "as if not accustomed to do so".
Enjoy the bonne bouffe, my dear !

[mariab]

Same here about my "reading list", David, but got 2 articles on deadline to complete for next week (but 2 VERY understanding editors, and a bunch of procrastinating colleagues/authors, lol).

Plus real curious to read Tom's chapter on the Emma Smith case when his book is finally done. (In 2030? Lol. Or maybe in 2013.)

(As for the "bonne bouffe", you should have seen the monstrous prime rib we had last night, could be cut with a spoon too. No Ripper skills required.)