Was Mackenzie a copycat?

[Fleetwood Mac]

I must disagree Gary.

If Kosminski were the Ripper, as an example, he might have had cunning, but I don't see him understanding concepts such as modus operandi, and thus being able to alter his methods.

Some who has, today, watched CSI, Morse or prime Suspect might know about such things. in the LVP they did not. Indeed, I doubt the police in 1888had fully worked it out - in terms of implications.

Phil

Which makes absolutely no sense.

As far as I can see, Garry is talking about instinct; and you counter this with learning/reasoning on the back of a sub-standard television programme.

I would imagine that the instincts that led Jack the Ripper down a path were of the same nature that led Peter Sutcliffe down a path.

It has been known for centuries that people are activated by fear and pride, and that is not about to change anytime soon.

[Phil H]

Each to his own FM - suffice it to say you don't convince me.

Phil

[Michael W Richards]

That being said, there are enough similarities to some of the murders that were attributed to 'Jack' to at least consider MacKenzie as a possible victim of the 'Jack'.

Cheers
DRoy

The only problem I have with the above DRoy is.....where the hell was he for all those months? He kills 2 women within 2 weeks, then he goes dormant until Alice? Or, if he kills Kate as well....same question.

It seems to me that the fellow who killed Polly and Annie must have been at some psychological tipping point when crimes like the Tabram murder shifted the weight beyond his control. I think that why 2 in around 10 days....he finally did it and he liked doing it. So why stop? The "heat"? Nonsense..that man killed a woman in the street and slit her open....he isnt conscious of the risks hes taking. Or he doesnt care about them.

So...why not another in a week or so after Annie? Ask Lynn Cates....he may have an idea about that. If the man that killed those women stopped because he could no longer kill....jail, incarceration, suicide...then Alice would have to be a "copycat" of sorts, wouldnt she?

Hard to imagine that someone who had the desire or the will to murder someone wouldnt be inspired by some of the Rippers acts.

Cheers DRoy

[DRoy]

Michael,

I didn't want to get in to all the particulars and actually commit to an opinion because I honestly don't know if she was or wasn't. I understand and appreciate the reasons why she would or wouldn't be considered a 'Ripper' victim.

My point was I don't think it should be easily dismissed simply because she wasn't considered a canonical.

Cheers
DRoy

[lynn cates]

murders

Hello John. Thanks.

I should have said London. Many of the ladies were not really in Whitechapel when they died.

If you read the period papers, there were murders every month. Eight is too modest.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Thanks!

Hello Jon.

"Let's not forget murderers William Bury, William Seamen and George Chapman who were also roaming around the area, if not involved in the Whitechapel murder cases. Will be a few others as well."

Now you're talking! Thanks.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

accounting

Hello John.

"To clarify things I think the idea that eight separate individuals were responsible for the Whitechapel murders as has been suggested in this thread is highly unlikely."

Why? How many do you think Sir MLM and Sir RA believed in?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

right

Hello Phil.

Quite.

Sensible post.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

"Let's not forget murderers William Bury, William Seamen and George Chapman who were also roaming around the area, if not involved in the Whitechapel murder cases. Will be a few others as well."

Now you're talking!

They may all have been walking the Whitechapel streets, but only one of them actually comitted murder in Whitechapel.

[lynn cates]

evidence

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"They may all have been walking the Whitechapel streets, but only one of them actually committed murder in Whitechapel."

Oh? And the evidence?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Oh? And the evidence?

Apart from one of them, they weren`t found guilty of a murder in Whitechapel, is usually pretty good.

[lynn cates]

not found guilty

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Apart from one of them, they weren't found guilty of a murder in Whitechapel, is usually pretty good."

There is a long list of people who were not found guilty of murder. But I spare you the litany.

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

In the worst district perhaps in the UK at the time, with the poorest people, severe overpopulation, and a large and often inebriated street population wandering in the dark, one that is comprised of faceless, forgotten people....I can see violent crimes like some of these occurring quite naturally.

Hi Mike,

On the surface this looks like a perfectly reasonable view to hold, but where is the evidence that 'violent crimes like some of these' (ie unsolved, motiveless knife attacks on adult women) were also occurring quite naturally in this worst district in any of the years before or after the Whitechapel cases from 1888-91?

Love,

Caz
X

[Phil H]

Were they all "motiveless" attacks?

Tabram could well be some sort of revenge attack (soldiers or someone who felt cheated) - its frenzy might suggest something personal. Smith seems likely to be some gang violence gone wrong.

Stride could could be a "domestic" as could Kelly (albeit in the latter case dressed up to look like JtR's work). Coles similarly could be the victim of a "jilted" Sadler.

We have to remember, surely, that it was the press that linked these killings into a series and hyped them up so that they stand out as "singular" and make 1888 appear unusual. Even then the Torso killings are left to one side. In considering serial killers and numbers of killings they should not be left out of the reckoning.

At base we might be left with Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes as the sum total of the work of a single killer.

It all depends on perspective and perception, I think. All too often we tend to accept the stand point and perceptions imposed by the press in 1888. Perhaps we should try using alternative vantage points more often.

Phil

[DVV]

Frenzy, soldiers and bayonet.
And the famous gang with their blunt instrument.
How can such things be still believed by well-educated people ?
A thicker mystery than JtR identity, imho.

Cheers all