Was Mackenzie a copycat?

[GregBaron]

Hi all,

Methinks Mackenzie and Coles, especially, get short shrift from the
ripper community.

I think, intuitively, that one of these outlier cases might yield a clue
that cracks the whole case wide open. Ok, I know, unlikely, but a nice
thought..

Anyway, I think the motivation for at least C's 1-3 was sexual deviance.
The killer was a pervert or paraphilic of some sort and got pleasure out of
his foul deeds. Stay with me here.

But if Mackenzie was killed by another, two questions come to mind.
Why attempt a copycat? and What is the motivation?

I could go into a long soliloquy about what I'm getting at here but
I think you people are smart enough to get the ball rolling..

Any thoughts?


Greg

[Phil H]

My view, for what it is worth, is that mckenzie may well have been a Ripper victim - killed by the same hand that murdered at least Nichols and Chapman and maybe Eddowes.

The circumstances of the killing remind me a lot of Nichols in Bucks Row. Whomever was responsible appears to have had difficulty with Alice's stays and thus could not mutilate as he wished/tried to do.

It is possible that "Jack" (if it was indeed he) was weakened or enfeebled and thus had less strength than earlier.

I find a copy-cat killing less plausible because it is so weak.

I think MJK for instance, could have been an attempt to replicate what the killer had READ about the murder of eddowes and how he IMAGINED it to be.

But Mckenzie's death seems a pale replica of Nichols, too close to be by someone who had not seen the Bucks Row corpse.

But that's just my musing.

Phil

[Damaso Marte]

Maybe a copycat, maybe an attempt by the original killer to return to his old hobby, only to realize that his heart was no longer in it, resulting in a half-assed effort.

[GregBaron]

Feeble rip...

My view, for what it is worth, is that mckenzie may well have been a Ripper victim - killed by the same hand that murdered at least Nichols and Chapman and maybe Eddowes.

The circumstances of the killing remind me a lot of Nichols in Bucks Row. Whomever was responsible appears to have had difficulty with Alice's stays and thus could not mutilate as he wished/tried to do.

It is possible that "Jack" (if it was indeed he) was weakened or enfeebled and thus had less strength than earlier.

I find a copy-cat killing less plausible because it is so weak.

I think MJK for instance, could have been an attempt to replicate what the killer had READ about the murder of eddowes and how he IMAGINED it to be.

But Mckenzie's death seems a pale replica of Nichols, too close to be by someone who had not seen the Bucks Row corpse.

But that's just my musing.

Phil

Thanks Phil, that's good musings...I can't disagree with anything...

If Mackenzie was a ripper victim then several favorite suspects go out the window...

Maybe a copycat, maybe an attempt by the original killer to return to his old hobby, only to realize that his heart was no longer in it, resulting in a half-assed effort.

Not sure I buy this one Dasmarte, he obviously had enough heart to murder again, these guys rarely lose the desire...

I more like Phil's idea that he's getting older and weaker or as I believe Lynn Cates once said, "I can't rip em like I used to"...


Greg

[lynn cates]

copy

Hello Greg. Good idea for a thread.

At one time, it was just dogma that these were copycat killings.

Why should one copy? The answer is so obvious as not to require an explanation.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Not obvious to me - sorry.

Phil

[lynn cates]

piles

Hello Phil. Thanks.

The point is to allow your "one off" to get sorted into a different pile.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Kill ten anonymous victims to hide the only one you really wanted to kill... That's a bit too "Agatha Christie" for me I'm afraid Lynn.

Phil

[lynn cates]

Cadfael

Hello Phil. Thanks.

No, no. YOU don't kill them. You allow other/s to do that. Then you kill ONE and sort into the wrong pile.

Think of Brother Cadfael, "One Corpse too many."

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Why why why...

That's what I struggle with gentlemen, what possible motivation
could there be for murdering poor prostitutes?

And why copycat, it wasn't like the cops had any idea who the
ripper was. It was easy to get away with such murders...

It seems it's either sexual deviancy or spontaneous anger..

The I Spy stuff has yielded little...


Greg

[lynn cates]

prostitutes

Hello Greg.

"what possible motivation
could there be for murdering poor prostitutes?"

But is that WHY they were selected? What if not?

"And why copycat, it wasn't like the cops had any idea who the
ripper was. It was easy to get away with such murders."

But was it? If Sadler, say, killed Frances, just an extra cut or two and that could deflect suspicion. It didn't, but not bad spur of the moment thinking.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

If Coles had been ripped to pieces Sadler would still likely have come under police suspicion due to his actions on the night of the murder. After all, they did try to fit him with the others despite the lack of abdominal mutilations on Coles.

[lynn cates]

unknown

Hello Cris. Thanks.

Quite. And he would be the first chap I'd look into, were I in charge. But I'm not sure he would have known that.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Escaped

Maybe a copycat, maybe an attempt by the original killer to return to his old hobby, only to realize that his heart was no longer in it, resulting in a half-assed effort.

Hello Damaso,

Or, having escaped from where he was confined, still feeling the effects of whatever he was being given to keep him calm.

Best wishes,
C4

[GregBaron]

Vulnerable victims of vice...

But is that WHY they were selected? What if not?

That's just it Lynn, I can't imagine them being selected at all...I
can't fathom a reason...

But was it? If Sadler, say, killed Frances, just an extra cut or two and that could deflect suspicion. It didn't, but not bad spur of the moment thinking.
LC

It's not like a couple of abdominal mutilations made the cops declare "Oh
the ripper did it, no reason to investigate"...It could even backfire, if the
Mackenzie killer was caught, they may have thrown the whole lot on his
plate...



Greg