Was Mackenzie a copycat?

[curious]

In addition to Stride, I could see Coles or Mackenzie as being interrupted. It's not easy to have the privacy to rip-em-to-bits in a very crowded East end with coppers afoot.


Greg

Actually, it seems only the coppers were afoot in Castle Alley. The policeman interviewed for the inquest all said no one really used the Alley, which was parked full of vans, wagons and barrows, and that not all of them were checked to see if someone was sleeping in them. One of the coppers had even had his private picnic at the same lamppost where Alice was killed.

Castle Alley was apparently quiet and eerily reminiscent of the murder of Polly Nichols. No one about, the police saw and heard nothing, a freshly killed woman and still he got away.

curious

[curious]

Dr Llewellyn on the knife used on Nichols -

'The weapon used would scarcely have been a sailor's jack knife, but a pointed weapon with a stout back--such as a cork-cutter's or shoemaker's knife.'

note - A shoemaker works with leather

How very interesting that the young man who was drafted by police to stand by the body of Alice McKenzie,Isaac Lewis Jacobs, gave his occupation as bootmaker at the inquest.

curious

[Michael W Richards]

Forget Schwartz....


Regards

Observer

I just captured the best part of the post above Observer...too much time spent on a tale that has zero corroboration by any witness involved in the Berner Street investigation.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

pipe/knife

Hello Colin. Thanks.

"I suspect this is a tongue-in-cheek post but what the heck."

Not at all.

"The assault itself and the production of a knife by pipeman were certainly more than enough to constitute a Breach of the Peace."

What knife? I agree that "The Star" had "knife" not "pipe."

Am I accusing "The Star" of making something up? Certainly not. Never happened. What then? A natural mistake. Evidence?

Well, what did the police report say? He was lighting his pipe.

So, one says pipe, one says knife.

1. How does one light a pipe? One tamps the tobacco in and employs a match.

2. How does one light a knife?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

1888

Hello David. Thanks.

"[S]eriously, your "On what charge?" wasn't a serious question."

Ah, but it WAS a serious question.

"If it was enough to frighten Schwartz. . ."

Where does Israel say it frightened him? Pipe man, maybe.

". . . it was enough to summon a constable."

Again, on what charge? Lamb had seen rows and squabbles enough. Routine.

"Especially in Sept 88."

Especially NOT.

1. Why had no one flinched at the cry of "Murder" in Martha's case?

2. What about "MJK"--the same?

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Charge?

Hello David. Thanks.

Very well. On what charge does he summon the constable?

Cheers.
LC

I suspect this is a tongue-in-cheek post but what the heck.

The duties of the police, then as now, were the protection of life and property, the maintenance of order, the prevention and detection of crime and the prosecution of offenders against the peace. The assault on Stride, if an injury was sustained, would have been an assault occasioning actual bodily harm under s.49 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. The assault itself and the production of a knife by pipeman were certainly more than enough to constitute a Breach of the Peace.

[Observer]

Now if we can only explain away those cachous David!

Regards

Observer

[DVV]

Exactly, Obs.

Cheers

[Observer]

Hi Wickerman

Schwartz was verbally threatened by BS man though.

Would Schwartz have felt threatened?

I'm sure he would have been.

I'm sure Schwartz, should he have stumbled into a policeman during his flight would have sought his assistance.

Forget Schwartz for a moment though. What is relevent to the whole assault is whether BS man felt it neccessary to break off the assault on the grounds that he had been interupted by Schwartz.

If he was JTR he might well have decided to cut his losses (no pun intended) and kill Stride,(she could after all identify him) and make off into the night before Schwartz returned with help.

Regards

Observer

[Wickerman]

Schwartz only claimed to run from the second man following him, not from the scuffle in the gateway.

[DVV]

Hi Lynn

seriously, your "On what charge ?" wasn't a serious question.

If it was enough to frighten Schwartz, it was enough to summon a constable. Especially in Sept 88.

That you don't trust Schwartz is another debate.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

B S M

Hello David. Thanks.

He had shoulders like a broad, then? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Mouarff

Broad-shouldering at night in Berner Street.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

charged up

Hello David. Thanks.

Very well. On what charge does he summon the constable?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hello David.

"But since Schwartz could alert a policeman, he killed Liz and disappeared."

"Constable, come quickly. Malicious lady shover at #40 Berner. May cause a Cachous spill."

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

Ridiculous.

What Schwatz had witnessed was enough to frighten him.
And enough to call a policeman, in the East End September 88.

Cheers