Murder, what murder?

[lynn cates]

Conspiracies R Us

Hello Damaso. "Conspiracy" is a robust notion with many convolutions. However, there is one documented "conspiracy" going on at this time.

To understand its tortured intricacies, permit me to recommend Christy Campbell's "Fenian Fire." In fine, HM government could not permit ANY investigation that even possibly involved the Jubilee Dynamite Plot.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Yes I am. In Mary's case it was the unique situation of emigrating from Ireland and then making her way alone in the big city of London which put her in a vulnerable situation. This all happened rather quickly for her, compared with the long slow slide to the rookeries experienced by some of the other victims.
Roy

Hi Roy,

I can take your point (most interesting), nonetheless, at the time she was about to marry Fleming, she certainly could still expect an ordinary life.
She had just drown bad card, in fact. (Fish and Lechmere will object it was a bad cart, but don't trust them).

Cheers

[Sam Flynn]

I suppose it is just possible that McCathy made up the arrears to avoid any suspicion from the Police that he was gaining from a prosititute paying her rent from immoral earnings.

I think the police knew she was a prostitute, so that was a vain hope if it was his intention. Plus, as I suggested yesterday, McCarthy was doing "all right" from his shop and from his other tenants, by no means all of whom were prostitutes. Indeed, I don't even think that Miller's Court was his only source of rent money - something in the back of my mind tells me he rented out rooms in Great Pearl Street as well. He certainly went on to become a very well-off landlord.

[Penhalion]

We sometimes act as though McCarthy was a latter day Bill Sykes but nothing in what I've seen shows him in a particularly bad light. He was probably a sharp business man and certainly no angel but he doesn't seem to have an extensive record of police involvement. He defended the reputation of the area in a public forum and was apparently well thought of enough to be considered an effective spokesman.

Does anybody here have any information that paints him in a darker tone? Reports of violence either in person or by his order?

[lynn cates]

new craze

Hello Penhalion.

"Does anybody here have any information that paints him in a darker tone? Reports of violence either in person or by his order?"

I think the new fashion is to suspect those who are punctual and pay their bills.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Among working class people, I wouldn't have thought so.

But perhaps Kelly had convinced Jack (McC) that her family were well off.

Joseph Barnett and Mrs. Carthy, a woman with whom she lived at one time, say that she came from a family that was "fairly well off" (Barnett) and "well to do people" (Carthy). Mrs. Carthy also states that Kelly was "an excellent scholar and an artist of no mean degree."

http://www.casebook.org/victims/mary_jane_kelly.html

I have not looked for the source of those comments, but they sound familiar.

[GUT]

Hello Penhalion.

"Does anybody here have any information that paints him in a darker tone? Reports of violence either in person or by his order?"

I think the new fashion is to suspect those who are punctual and pay their bills.

Cheers.
LC

Well if we believe McCarthy [and I see no reason not too] that doesn't apply to Mary or Marie or whatever her damn name was.

[Wickerman]

We sometimes act as though McCarthy was a latter day Bill Sykes but nothing in what I've seen shows him in a particularly bad light. He was probably a sharp business man and certainly no angel but he doesn't seem to have an extensive record of police involvement. He defended the reputation of the area in a public forum and was apparently well thought of enough to be considered an effective spokesman.

Does anybody here have any information that paints him in a darker tone? Reports of violence either in person or by his order?

Off hand, I recall reading his name in the press more than once, and Tom Wescott provides a few interesting circumstances concerning McCarthy in the chapter, The Lords of Spitalfields, in The Bank Holiday Murders, 2014.

[lynn cates]

name

Hello GUT. Thanks.

Right. But I daresay, WHATEVER her name was, Kelly was NOT her cognomen.

Cheers.
LC

[GUT]

G'day Lynn

How about Davies then?

[Natasha]

Hello Natasha. Thanks.

Of course, Dr. Phillips also was at autopsy. So you would need a huge collusion for this to work.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Where is Dr Philips autopsy report, or at least copies of what he wrote, if he was transcribing for Bond, Is there any original Drafts of Bonds report?
I’m sure it was pointed out somewhere that technically Dr Philips should have conducted the autopsy and his name should have been on the autopsy paperwork. Now if I’m right about this, could it be that Bonds report is a fake, written by someone else trying to cover up a conspiracy of some sort? Or is the real report still out there? The question of Kitty Ronan: could the bond report deliberately have been mixed up with this case or could elements of the report have been mixed up maybe by accident? I know there is 18 years between these murders, but is it not a little too coincidental that Bonds report was ’lost’. Look at the similarities: Kelly killed at 13 millers court Kitty at 12 millers court, the meals the victims ate, fish & potatoes (was mentioned in Bonds report, so slightly significant), the name Kitty and Kelly. They are roughly the same age and are similar in appearance.
The detectives in charge of their cases: Frederick Porter Wensley (kitty), Frederick Abberline (Kelly), (there's a picture of Wensley, no picture of Abberline, Abberline seems a very important part of the ripper case, where is his pic?

I’m very interested in finding the autopsy report for Kitty.

Where is Kelly's mortuary pic? I feel the coroners etc would at least attempt to reconstruct her face as best they can for identity purposes, so it would be interesting to see what that pic looks like.

Now, newspaper reports, there are newspaper reports that are missing,
I find it quite annoying that there is a lot of information about Kelly that has been ’destroyed’ like infirmary/workhouse admissions etc in some areas of Wales. Every time I have tried to research her past using information given about her, I have encountered missing information.

I’m not 100% sure on my original theory, I’m just thinking outside the box!

[Natasha]

Hi Natasha,don't let the banter put you off your research.Very little changes on here and any suggestions that hint at any sort of motive are likely to produce a few cackles but it's all good natured.......usually
I posted a lot along similar lines to your thinking a few years ago and it's far too much to go repeating in full but most of it was on the thread 'maxwell' ,i'll try in a minute to remember how to put a link on lol.

All the best

Hi packers Stem

Thank you for the encouragement, I think there are elements in the Kelly case that don't add up, so will keep researching

[Wickerman]

Natasha.

Dr Bond's report is only a preamble, Bond was hired by Warren/Anderson to offer his opinion on the wounds, it was not intended to be an exhaustive post-mortem report.
There is a press article that suggests the conclusions arrived at in this report were agreed to for the most part by Dr Phillips.

The actual post-mortem report by Phillips will have covered several pages, you can look at the example of his work on that of McKenzie, and she had relatively minor mutilations compared with those of Mary Kelly.

Dr. Bond's report was penned in response to a request from Anderson, it was not intended to replace the official report created by Dr Phillips.

[Natasha]

Natasha.

Dr Bond's report is only a preamble, Bond was hired by Warren/Anderson to offer his opinion on the wounds, it was not intended to be an exhaustive post-mortem report.
There is a press article that suggests the conclusions arrived at in this report were agreed to for the most part by Dr Phillips.

The actual post-mortem report by Phillips will have covered several pages, you can look at the example of his work on that of McKenzie, and she had relatively minor mutilations compared with those of Mary Kelly.

Dr. Bond's report was penned in response to a request from Anderson, it was not intended to replace the official report created by Dr Phillips.

I think that if it was a conspiracy constructed by some higher power(s), everyone would have to play along with it.

Something just doesn't add up with the Kelly case

[lynn cates]

Davies

Hello GUT. Thanks.

Could be, PROVIDED not nee Kelly. Welsh colliery explosions have been investigated and NO Davies had married a Mary Kelly.

I trust you have the late Chris Scott's book on "MJK"?

Cheers.
LC