The missing key?

[lynn cates]

silent

Hello Harry. Thanks.

OK, but my point is why not remain silent about the key and explain the window business--as he did?

Cheers.
LC

[Harry D]

Hello Harry. Thanks.

OK, but my point is why not remain silent about the key and explain the window business--as he did?

Cheers.
LC

Hey Lynn,

Barnett was at the scene but didn't think to tell the police that they could simply unlock the door through the window, instead of breaking in and needlessly damaging a crime scene? Why did any of the other locals advise them of this? Why didn't the landlord McCarthy? But it isn't until Barnett is taken in for questioning that the story of the missing key and the window trick is brought to light. Because at this point he was probably getting worried that the police were going to pin the murder on him. In Barnett's mind, the key (or lack thereof) had to be explained for otherwise he would've been a prime suspect.

[Amanda Sumner]

Hello Harry. Thanks.

OK, but my point is why not remain silent about the key and explain the window business--as he did?

Cheers.
LC

Because his girlfriend had been murdered, the police were under pressure to get these cases solved, and had he admitted he had the key...and he was number one suspect at the time...he would have been charged with murder, whether he was guilty or not. By saying that the key was missing and giving the window story, and establishing, presumably, an alibi, the police were satisfied and let him go. It's clear to me why he lied.

[Amanda Sumner]

Hey Lynn,

Barnett was at the scene but didn't think to tell the police that they could simply unlock the door through the window, instead of breaking in and needlessly damaging a crime scene? Why did any of the other locals advise them of this? Why didn't the landlord McCarthy? But it isn't until Barnett is taken in for questioning that the story of the missing key and the window trick is brought to light. Because at this point he was probably getting worried that the police were going to pin the murder on him. In Barnett's mind, the key (or lack thereof) had to be explained for otherwise he would've been a prime suspect.

Exactly. the key was never missing and he thought that one up while being questioned. I can hardly blame him. In those days with no forensics, fingerprinting and DNA, it did not take much to be found guilty.

[lynn cates]

deflection

Hello Harry. Thanks.

I suppose I am missing something simple, but, at this point, it feels like this.

Suppose some bloke is a person of interest in an axe murder case. The police ask to search his house and he allows it. "You see. No axes." "Right. Sorry to have troubled you sir." "Um, care to see my collection of hatchets in my car?"

Should have kept his mouth shut.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

I don't see why Barnett's entrance into Mary's apartment would depend solely on having a key. What about simply knocking on her door and saying "Mary, it's Joe. I need to speak with you it's extremely important" or "I'm sorry about our argument. I have some money for you."

c.d.

[Amanda Sumner]

I don't see why Barnett's entrance into Mary's apartment would depend solely on having a key. What about simply knocking on her door and saying "Mary, it's Joe. I need to speak with you it's extremely important" or "I'm sorry about our argument. I have some money for you."

c.d.

Indeed, but as the key was not forthcoming and the door was locked, the police were naturally wanting to know who had it. They would certainly have asked Barnett about it during his interview. I think he must certainly have been in a state of shock, having undoubtedly seen the mess on the bed. Maybe he was not thinking straight and it was easier to say the key was missing and take the focus off himself. It seems odd that he did not show them how they got in without the key when they were pondering about how to gain entrance. As I still stand by my conviction that the window pane was too high to be able to get in that way, string or no string, and nobody has yet come back to me to prove otherwise, I think Barnett was lying, but not because he had killed her, but because he was afraid they were going to accuse him.

[lynn cates]

yup

Hello CD. Precisely.

Cheers.
LC

[Harry D]

Hello Harry. Thanks.

I suppose I am missing something simple, but, at this point, it feels like this.

Suppose some bloke is a person of interest in an axe murder case. The police ask to search his house and he allows it. "You see. No axes." "Right. Sorry to have troubled you sir." "Um, care to see my collection of hatchets in my car?"

Should have kept his mouth shut.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Perhaps Barnett should've kept his mouth shut but he was being grilled by the police as a potential suspect and would've done anything to take the heat off himself in that situation. No doubt they quizzed him on who had access to 13 Miller's Court. Let's assume that the window trick was a lie, which might be the case seeing as Barnett never saw fit to suggest this to the police as they twiddled their thumbs outside before deciding to break the door down. Neither did the landlord etc. Therefore Barnett concocted a story about the key going "missing" and the two of them reaching through the window to access the room, even though MJK was apparently scared of the Ripper she was seemingly happy to live in a room where a burglar or worse could enter by reaching through the window?

The key was never missing. MJK let herself in with it that night and the Ripper took it with him after butchering her corpse.

[Amanda Sumner]

Hello Harry D,

It seems that some people are determined to stick to one idea, and don't like it to be shifted. I believe you are quite right about Barnett and the whole idea of the window is nonsense. Can you see a broken pane at the bottom of the window? I can't. It is odd that the police did not question it, or perhaps they did, but were satisfied that Barnett was not their man. Kelly lived with a child in that room, unbelievably,I know, and mostly overlooked, but I can't imagine her leaving them both open to potential danger if it was that easy to open the door. If there had been an easier way in the police would not have had the door broken down.

[Harry D]

Hello Harry D,

It seems that some people are determined to stick to one idea, and don't like it to be shifted. I believe you are quite right about Barnett and the whole idea of the window is nonsense. Can you see a broken pane at the bottom of the window? I can't. It is odd that the police did not question it, or perhaps they did, but were satisfied that Barnett was not their man. Kelly lived with a child in that room, unbelievably,I know, and mostly overlooked, but I can't imagine her leaving them both open to potential danger if it was that easy to open the door. If there had been an easier way in the police would not have had the door broken down.

Hello Amanda,

One could get the impression that the police already had a good idea of who the Ripper was at this point, which is why the inquest into MJK's murder was a little...rushed, shall we say?

[Amanda Sumner]

Hello Amanda,

One could get the impression that the police already had a good idea of who the Ripper was at this point, which is why the inquest into MJK's murder was a little...rushed, shall we say?

I get the impression that they seemed extremely careless and, yes, rushed, but not sure if they knew who it was. Maybe there was an element to get things done as quickly as possible because there were crowds spilling into the street outside. People were getting angry and frightened and wanting answers.
The treatment of the crime scene was particularly reckless, although to be fair, there was little for them to go on. There does not seem to be many records that have survived. It would have been interesting, for example, to have had a list of the clothes on that chair and a better study of what was exactly in that fireplace. I am puzzled too, by the lack of personal possessions.I know these people were poor but did they really only have the clothes they stood in? No obvious sign of a child living there,either, although we know one did.
Have you had a chance to look at the photo of the dwelling? It would be nice to have the pane debate put to bed. I would also like to know where the story of the string comes from. I've not heard of that before.

Amanda

[lynn cates]

he gave; he took away

Hello Harry. Thanks.

"Perhaps Barnett should've kept his mouth shut but he was being grilled by the police as a potential suspect and would've done anything to take the heat off himself in that situation."

I can see that. But why concoct a lie about the key when he implicates himself after all?

"No doubt they quizzed him on who had access to 13 Miller's Court."

I believe that.

"Let's assume that the window trick was a lie, which might be the case seeing as Barnett never saw fit to suggest this to the police as they twiddled their thumbs outside before deciding to break the door down."

Was he there whilst they waited?

"Neither did the landlord etc."

Now that McCarthy lied makes sense. After all, he averted implication, nor did he indicate he knew how to access the room.

"Therefore Barnett concocted a story about the key going "missing" and the two of them reaching through the window to access the room. . ."

I can believe the lie about the key, but why not just say, "I don't know how she got in. But on those occasions when I dropped by, she was inside and so it was a moot point."?

Cheers.
LC

[MrBarnett]

Amanda ,

The one image I recall showing two panes broken is the cover illustration to 'Famous Crimes'. How reliable that was, I'm not sure .

MrB

[Amanda Sumner]

Amanda ,

The one image I recall showing two panes broken is the cover illustration to 'Famous Crimes'. How reliable that was, I'm not sure .

MrB

Thank you MrBarnet,
I don't know how reliable that was either...

I downloaded an image of Miller's Court, tweaked it, and it seemed to show clearly the one broken pane, but for some reason cannot upload it on here. Why is that? I just want to put the theory to bed, really. If there were two broken panes, one at the bottom, then maybe Barnett was telling the truth. How the police failed to notice though, beats me!

Cheers, Amanda