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Time for a bump up methinks.
Interesting thread
Interesting thread
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"Great minds, don't think alike" -
Hi RD- not sure what letter is being referred to.
I think Kelly may have been premeditated. Whoever killed her seemed prepared for complete mutilation. There was likely more than one knife. I dont think you try to skin a human with a butcher or sticking knife or clasp knife.
Kelly was over a month behind in rent and she frequented Ten Bells and Britannia so it's possible the killer learned of her predicament. I found it interesting that Inspecter Reid said he thought the killer frequented one Pub and after drinking the man would go after these women.
Since all of these women had a history in and around Dorset, Flower & Dean and Thrawl Street it could be Reid was on to something.
If Hutchinson was to be believed and the killer was the man he saw on Thrawl Street, then it's possible that the Killer learned of all his potential victims from one or both of these Pubs.
Hutchinson made an unusual statement with regard to the parcel his man was holding. He referred to it as American Cloth with straps. I'm not certain but believe American Cloth was canvass. Several professions used this cloth to wrap instruments or knives in and you can find them online.
The man said something to Kelly that made them both burst in to laughter as she replied - allright.
if this man then said- you will be allright for what I have told you...what could be said to get that kind of response?
Did the killer offer to.pay her rent for some sexual offer in her room?? Money talks?
Just initial thoughts but I could see premedition in her case.
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A good post.Originally posted by Patrick Differ View Post
I personally think that Hutchinson was not a credible witness and that Astrakan man was an invention.
That may or may not then mean that the killer was Hutchinson; or the man who came forward with a fake name as Hutchinson.
His timing is telling; he only came forward after the inquest concluded after just a few hours.
Nobody was expecting the coroner to close the inquest on the same day it had started, not even the killer.
How would the killer feel about his swansong killing being wattled down into just a few hours of discussion that culminated in the coroner closing the inquest with no adjournment.
I also don't believe that Kelly was necessarily soliciting the entire time.
Admittedly she was seen taking Blotchy face back to her room, but it appears she spent more time singing to him than anything else.
I think the killer may have even lived in Miller's Court, or at least had at some point in the past, and so was familiar with the court, and possibly Kelly's movements on the few days leading up to the murder.
It is odd that Barnett had only recently left her, and then she ends up being butchered in her room.
That's not to say that Barnett had anything to do with the murder, but rather that the killer was aware that her circumstances had recently changed, and on that basis he targeted her.
He may have done the same thing with Stride, in that he may have become aware of her recent split, and sought to take advantage of her having become single.
It's a tricky one to decipher, but I lean more to the idea that Kelly's murder was planned to some extent.
He watched her and then picked his moment.
"Great minds, don't think alike"Comment
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Hi RD- I am still unsure of Hutchinson but Abberline could not trip up his story after 3 attempts so it's possible he saw the killer.
What strikes me is that Kelly, like Chapman, Eddowes, and Tabrum were in not just a concentrated kill zone but also in the prime hunting grounds around Flower & Dean Streets. When you look at where these women were killed and where they lived it strikes me that there is also another common denominator and that is the Petticoat Lane Marketplace.
If the killer lived locally then how would you explain the threads the man Hutchinson saw??
There was a thriving Middle Class in Whitechapel. Business owners primarily as Charles Booth identified. Many lived in this area of concentration.
Also the Rag Trade was central to Petticoat Lane and Astrakan was being shipped into the London Docks. The Jewish Tailors were making knock offs of trendy fashion and Astrakan full length coats had become trendy. The Whitechapel middle class could certainly affird the fashion.
How much would the attire cost from Hutchinsons description? Let's call it his Sundays best? Several pounds on the high side. Shabby Genteel with Astrakan, a gold chain, spats...certainly affordable by an even lower Middle Class business owner. All available right there where these women lived and died.
Elizabeth Long may have been a source for Hutchinson in terms of the shabby Genteel description. Although my understanding of that term is that it described someone looking to appear higher in class then they actually were. Likely a standard terminology for the time.
Can you possibly tie this killer to the Whitechapel Marketplace on Middlesex Street and its trades? its all right there.
After Kelly's murder, Hutchinson apparently went with PCs to look for the man. He claims he saw him on Middlesex Street?
Kelly and Chapman have similar connections in this case.
Both were murdered just North of Petticoat Lane
Both eyewitnesses described a man of Jewish appearance
Both described Shabby Genteel attire
Both lived in the hunt zone
Both died in one of two kill zones ( Bucks, Berner the other)
Both were known to Pub hop ( they all did) in this same area
Hutchinson saw a man on Thrawl Street and claims he followed him with Kelly, to Millers Court. He is dressed similarly to the man Elizabeth Long witnesses. Both Shabby Genteel. The distance from Millers Court to 29 Hanbury Street is less than 10 minutes walk.
If Kellys murder was premeditated then it might make sense for the killer to put on his Sunday best. He had the money to impress. He knew where to wait for her to emerge. Thrawl at Commercial Street.
Just some thoughts.
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The Rookie Detective:It is odd that Barnett had only recently left her, and then she ends up being butchered in her room.
That is odd, and perhaps significant, but most all the victims' circumstances had recently changed. Nichols had left her lodgings at 18 Thrawl Street and bounced around, landing at 35 Dorset Street, which she was apparently unhappy with. Martha Tabram had recently separated from Henry Turner, Liz Stride only days earlier separated from Michael Kidney, and Frances Coles was booted from the lodging house she'd lived at for years only several weeks before her murder. There is a pattern here, but does the pattern have to do with the killer or with the fact that the denizens of the lodging houses, by a large, did not live stable lives?
Yours truly,
Tom WescottComment
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