Mary Jane was murdered between 09.00 and 10.30 am

[Abby Normal]

Hello Spyglass,

I don't see any way to reconcile her testimony with the TOD established by the doctors. That would lead us to believe that one of the parties got it wrong. But which one?
It basically comes down to what is more likely. That trained medical doctors were incorrect in their estimate of time of death and that the killer (if it was, in fact, Jack) drastically changed his M.O. regarding the time when he killed or that Mrs. Maxwell simply got confused and misidentified Mary and/or mixed up her dates. Could the doctors be wrong? Yes. Could Mrs. Maxwell have been mistaken? Yes. But if I go with what I think more likely I have to go with the doctors.

Pays your money and takes your chances.

c.d.

and the night time murder by the drs is corroberated by two witnesses who heard screams of murder from a woman coming from the vicinity of marys room.

[Wickerman]

To me the most improbable thing about the "MJK was not the woman killed in the room" idea is that it requires explaining what happened to MJK afterwards. She just decided to disappear and none of her relatives or the police ever saw her again?

Well, what if the victim was only using the name she gave to everyone?
She wasn't really Mary Jane Kelly, but she knew her, which is where she got all the bio from, it was all real, just not her bio.
In that case the real Mary Kelly would still be alive on the 1891 census, which is what we find.

[Damaso Marte]

Well, what if the victim was only using the name she gave to everyone?
She wasn't really Mary Jane Kelly, but she knew her, which is where she got all the bio from, it was all real, just not her bio.
In that case the real Mary Kelly would still be alive on the 1891 census, which is what we find.

Well then why doesn't the real Mary Kelly show up to the inquest and clear things up? Why does she let Maxwell and Lewis look like idiots?

And don't answer "because she is part of a criminal conspiracy and decided to disappear" because then why would she comply with the census?

[Damaso Marte]

Anyway, this debate is all academic to me. I believe that Kelly and Chapman were killed by the same person, which means that I'm OK with daytime murders. I believe that Kelly and Eddowes were killed by the same person, so I am OK with the killer working quickly. Ultimately, were it proven that MJK was killed between 9:00 and 10:30 AM, it would change none of my views about the case.

[Wickerman]

Well then why doesn't the real Mary Kelly show up to the inquest and clear things up? Why does she let Maxwell and Lewis look like idiots?

And don't answer "because she is part of a criminal conspiracy and decided to disappear" because then why would she comply with the census?

No conspiracy.
The 'real' Mary wouldn't know what was going on.
We already know there were a number of Mary Kelly's, modern researchers have found several. Should they all show up in London at the inquest just because one of the victims had the same name?
Mary Kelly was a very common name.

[Wickerman]

Anyway, this debate is all academic to me. I believe that Kelly and Chapman were killed by the same person, which means that I'm OK with daytime murders. I believe that Kelly and Eddowes were killed by the same person, so I am OK with the killer working quickly. Ultimately, were it proven that MJK was killed between 9:00 and 10:30 AM, it would change none of my views about the case.

Yes, I've always believed Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes & Kelly were all killed by the same person. Stride is 50/50 for me, I have just as many questions for as against.
Maxwell, in my view, was mistaken, that's all.
And, I suspect the reporter who interviewed Morris Lewis misunderstood him. It was Maxwell who went for milk about 8:30, not Mary Kelly.

[Chief Inspector Clouseau]

The way the killer 'focused' on MJK's face could certainly raise questions about, or entertain the theory of someone else being murdered in lieu of her; thus the intent being for people believing that it was indeed MJK - as she was found in her room.
I do not adhere to this scenario. However, I can see why it would be sustained.

[miakaal4]

Is it possible that MJK finally got home around 9 saw the horror and hopped it?

[c.d.]

Is it possible that MJK finally got home around 9 saw the horror and hopped it?

Possible? Yes. Do we have any real reason to think that that might be the case? No.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

Is it possible that MJK finally got home around 9 saw the horror and hopped it?

maybe mary kelly was the ripper and the woman in her room was her last victim.

[spyglass]

maybe mary kelly was the ripper and the woman in her room was her last victim.

Yes! ...and the woman seen with a man was actually Barnett and new lover, he attained after he and MJK broke up.
I think we got something here.

[miakaal4]

Lol. Just saying

[Wickerman]

Yes! ...and the woman seen with a man was actually Barnett and new lover, he attained after he and MJK broke up.
I think we got something here.

Hmm. I can't quite think of a name for it, but you've definitely got something.

[Michael W Richards]

I've always felt deep down that Maxwell wasnt mistaken.
For one thing, her memory was to close to the actual event.
Secondly, she remained adamant about it even when at the enquiry, they tried to change her mind.

Regards.

They told her that her evidence didnt jive with any of the other statements, based upon a presumption that the murder occurred in the middle of the night. I believe the time that inflicting all that damage might have taken, seems extremely risky to be doing that in daylight with only muslin window coverings that according to Bowyer, were easy to move aside. I believe I recall Elizabeth Prater claimed that she knocked on Marys door around 5 or 6. If Mary was alive but still asleep, she likely would have wakened. Im not sure whether the proponents of the idea that she was murdered within an hour or 2 of being discovered believe Mary returned to her room in daylight, or whether she was in still the room and someone came in. Or someone never left. If its the last, then it would be Blotchy as the man of interest. Only Hutchinson claimed to have seen Mary out and about with Astrakan. He diverted the attention of the police long enough for her real killer to be continents away if he chose to be.

If they had remained focused on Blotchy, they could have apprehended him the week following the murder.., but Hutchinsons distraction and the authorities desperation combined to allow him to slip through their fingers.

[DJA]

Prater did not knock on Kelly's door.
She was at the pub at 5.45am.