Room 13 Miller's Court

[Simon Wood]

Hi Fisherman and Sam,

Somewhere I've got the sun's position and angles etc for November 9th 1888. I'll see if I can dig them out.

Regards,

Simon

[Tom_Wescott]

It never occurred to me that these pictures might not be a) of Mary Kelly's house or b) Might have been taken years after Kelly's murder. This is mainly due to the fact that I'm slow in the head. But there are other reasons as well: the building in the photo is identical to contemporary drawings, the very visible (although not in the images on this thread) holes in the window are in the right place and would have been fixed before the next tenants moved in. The windows were boarded up after Kelly's body was moved out so this photo would seem to have been taken prior to the removal of Kelly's body. It also seems from press reports that the photographer on the scene took many photographs, mainly indoor but also out door. Here's a clipping from the Irish Times of Nov. 10th:

Previous to the post-mortem examination, a photographer, who was brought on the scene only after considerable difficulty and delay, was set to work, with a view to obtaining permanent evidence as to the state of the room, the condition of the body, and other points, trivial perhaps, but possibly important, which have heretofore been too much neglected in the investigation of the series of crimes of which to-day's horror is surely the climax. The state of the atmosphere was unfortunately not favourable to good results. A slight drizzling rain was falling, the air was dusky, even in the open thoroughfare, and in the little court it was at times almost dark, especially inside the miserable houses. The photographer, however, did his best, and succeeded in securing several negatives, which he hopes will be useful.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Fisherman and Sam,

Somewhere I've got the sun's position and angles etc for November 9th 1888. I'll see if I can dig them out.

Here's a shot of the sun, as seen from London at nearly midday on 9th Nov 1888:



The horizon is shown in green, and the sun is 21° 37' above it. As the afternoon wore on the sun got lower and lower in the sky as it headed westwards. Even if it had been higher in the sky, it's worth noting that the sun was then almost due south - in other words, it wouldn't have been favourably placed to have been casting shadows in Miller's Court.

I would be more than happy to stand corrected on this. I normally use this software to see what's going on "up there", rather than to find out what shapes are being cast on the ground!

[Chris Scott]

How about a touch of colour?? (Imaginary of course!)

[Sam Flynn]

How about a touch of colour?? (Imaginary of course!)

Looks quite nice - wouldn't mind living there meself!

[Tom_Wescott]

I love what you've done with the place, Chris.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Celesta]

It never occurred to me that these pictures might not be a) of Mary Kelly's house or b) Might have been taken years after Kelly's murder. This is mainly due to the fact that I'm slow in the head. But there are other reasons as well: the building in the photo is identical to contemporary drawings, the very visible (although not in the images on this thread) holes in the window are in the right place and would have been fixed before the next tenants moved in. The windows were boarded up after Kelly's body was moved out so this photo would seem to have been taken prior to the removal of Kelly's body. It also seems from press reports that the photographer on the scene took many photographs, mainly indoor but also out door. Here's a clipping from the Irish Times of Nov. 10th:

Previous to the post-mortem examination, a photographer, who was brought on the scene only after considerable difficulty and delay, was set to work, with a view to obtaining permanent evidence as to the state of the room, the condition of the body, and other points, trivial perhaps, but possibly important, which have heretofore been too much neglected in the investigation of the series of crimes of which to-day's horror is surely the climax. The state of the atmosphere was unfortunately not favourable to good results. A slight drizzling rain was falling, the air was dusky, even in the open thoroughfare, and in the little court it was at times almost dark, especially inside the miserable houses. The photographer, however, did his best, and succeeded in securing several negatives, which he hopes will be useful.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Ah ha. Now, this is interesting. The photo shows a gloomy scene, to me. Does it look as though it's been raining? Not particularly, but who's to say when it stopped. If it was just a mist, the ground might not be soggy with puddles. It does look damp. Also, Sam's diagram shows the sun low in the sky and west of north. There doesn't appear to be much glare on the windows, but the tiny bit of shadow might indicate the sun lying westerly. That would make it later in the day, if I'm remembering the chart correctly.

"Slow in the head' ain't an expression I would use to describe you.


Chris, Could we make that a deeper blue? That color doesn't match my curtains. How about a nice Caribbean blue. Ha!

[Robert]

When giving his inquest evidence on the broken window, Bowyer referred to Inspector Ledger's plans. If the photo had been taken on the afternoon of the 9th, would not Bowyer have referred either to the photo alone, or the photo and plans together? He seems not to have referred to the photograph at all.

Robert

[pearlyanna]

Just a thought ,but as the court was "at times almost dark" wouldnt the photographer have used a flash (probably hand held) and that in turn would affect the angle of shadows.

Anna

[Simon Wood]

Hi Sam,

That's close enough for jazz. Here's what I got at the moment McCarthy pick-axed the door.

Location: London: 0.08 degrees West, 51.53 degrees North
Date and Time: 9-11-1888, 13:30 hrs.

Sun Altitude: 17.86 degrees
Sun Azimuth: 206.59 degrees

Morning Twilight : 6:31
Sun Rise: 7:7
Midday: 11:44
Sun Set: 16:21
Evening Twilight: 16:57

Hi Robert,

I believe it was Doctor Phillips who referred to the exterior photo.

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

Just a thought ,but as the court was "at times almost dark" wouldnt the photographer have used a flash (probably hand held) and that in turn would affect the angle of shadows.

I thought that, Anna, but again I can't quite square the use of a flash with those downward-raking shadows which seem to come from a light source way, way above and to the right (West) as we look at the photo.

[Tom_Wescott]

Celesta,

Thanks for that, Celesta. You're a big sweetie. There are a lot of reports of it being dark and drizzly that day, so I'd say that's pretty accurate. Who knows, the water visible in the pan under the window may be rain water. Also, let me say that if looked at the proper perspective, it doesn't appear that it would be too difficult for someone to reach in the window and unlatch the door, unless the person were smaller, such as a child or small woman. But apparently Mary didn't have any problem with this set-up. It would also have been a very, very simple matter to attach a string to the latch and just reach in the hole and pull the string up or down to free the latch.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Chris Scott]

here's the weather forecast for the day in question

[Celesta]

Celesta,

Thanks for that, Celesta. You're a big sweetie. There are a lot of reports of it being dark and drizzly that day, so I'd say that's pretty accurate. Who knows, the water visible in the pan under the window may be rain water. Also, let me say that if looked at the proper perspective, it doesn't appear that it would be too difficult for someone to reach in the window and unlatch the door, unless the person were smaller, such as a child or small woman. But apparently Mary didn't have any problem with this set-up. It would also have been a very, very simple matter to attach a string to the latch and just reach in the hole and pull the string up or down to free the latch.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Thank you! Is it water in the pan? I was afraid that I was seeing water because I hoped it would be there, or vice versa.

Somewhere recently, I saw a diagram from a slightly different angle, more toward the corner, and it struck me that it would not have been too difficult for her to reach in the window. I've gotta start writing things like this down. I don't remember where I saw the diagram, but I'll look for it. I'm compiling information, my own personal A to Z, but it is slooooow work. Take care.

[Tom_Wescott]

If you look at the left corner of the full picture, you'll see where there's a concrete platform. Atop that platform was a water pump, so the water in the pan could just as easily come from there. By East End standards, Mary had pretty sweet digs - her own place, a fireplace to keep warm, running water just outside her door, etc.

Robert,

Were any of the other Kelly photos directly referenced at the inquest?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott