Room 13 Miller's Court

[Jane Coram]

Hi Perry,

I can see what you are getting at, but there could be another side to the coin. (I did put a wink icon in there but it looked as if he was constipated, so I took it out again. )

The pump yard and the dustbins were right outside number 13. If it was being used as a kitchen/scullery at any time, then there would need to be a door at the back for practical purposes - that is to collect the water, get rid of waste liquids down the drain, and also to put rubbish in the dustbins.

Okay it's not that much further to the other door in the side wall, but if that door led to the staircase and the other rooms, I can't see people wanting to trudge through with buckets of refuse and water to get into the scullery. Much more logical just to take a couple of steps from the back door to the bins and pump.

Even things like taking the washing to hang out, or the chamber pots and buckets used overnight for you know what, would have to be taken down to the WC's at the end of the court. Again, better to take them out of the back door than through the passage at the side, especially as that door was half way along the passage and if anyone was coming through it at the time, they might not be too happy being confronted by a slopping bucket of Heaven knows what!

Hugs

Jane

xxxx

You can tell I've done a lot of bucket carting. Lol.

Oh just seen Rob's new plan, and that looks spot on to me, that is exactly how I pictured it. I wonder if the door from the shed into the hall opened the other way though (inwards) other wise they would bash into one another if they both opened at the same time. Some poor sod would be walking along minding his own business and get squashed against the wall Lol.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam

Why would those Georgian architects have two doors leading to the same place?

I'm not sure that they did, Stephen. It appears that the side-door to the upper floors was more "aft" than one might imagine, if I read this rather low-res segment of the Goad plan correctly. See the red circle on the top segment and compare it with the original image beneath:



...there seems to be a doorway indicated just under the red circle, on the left hand side of the passage. If so, this might have been the side-entrance to the back parlour (as the room is labelled in your diagram), the front door perhaps being reserved for the original "masters" of the house. I'd have thought that the front door might also have been used for welcoming guests - one wouldn't have expected them to shuffle down that cramped alley to the "tradesman's" entrance.

As I said, I'm only basing this conjecture on a crummy image of the Goad plan. Perhaps someone has a better reproduction of the relevant section they could post?

[Rob Clack]

Thanks Glenn, all the best to you.


As for 26 Dorset Street, I believe it was built with three doorways. One facing Dorset Street, one in the passage it self and one leading into the court itself (Mary's room). The shed portion would originally have been used as a shop, so the tenants who lived above would need the passage entrance to get to the upstairs room and then you would have had the door to the back parlor which became Mary's room.
I use to work in a place in Knightshill which had a similar layout. I don't know how old the building was but it had outside toilets. Anyway, you had the shop entrance, there was a door that lead to the upstairs rooms and a door to the kitchen. There was also a door around the side that accessed the stairs and a door around the back that lead to the back garden and to the toilets. So I think 26 Dorset Street originally looked like this, and the partition was just the two inside doors close to the stairs.



Rob

[Jane Coram]

Hiya,

I think that Rob's is pretty much as I visualize it.......

I just wondered with Stephen's how you would get through from the scullery to the other room. Would there be a door leading through connecting the two hallways? If so, then I could see that could work. The only other thing that struck me is that if 26 and 27 were the same style, (only reversed of course) Then 27 was used as a shop, which would mean that the front door led straight into the room/shop, rather than into a hallway. I just wondered if 26 would be the same.


Hugs

Jane

xxxx

Since no one seems to like a logical conclusion, Ill try this only once more....

How many doors would access the Parlor, which became #13, when the building was constructed?

The answer is one. From inside the house, inside the hall, inside the door, beside the stairs, inside the archway.

How many doors existed to the parlour when it became Marys room? One again. The NEW doorway, created inside the courtyard, making Marys room effectively a standalone room. She could no longer enter or exit her room via the doorway leading to the stairs and the archway door. Why? Because it was sealed by using an old door.

The ONLY door on that wall that accessed the house and the staircase is inside the archway. Its not just a possibility. That door would have been the only one on that wall to the house, so why would you need a separate door to access the parlour separately, when by entering the archway door puts you right in front of the doorway to the Parlour that became Marys room. Generally speaking, it would be more expensive and serve no pupose to have one door leading into the parlour from the archway door entrance...and 15 feet further into the court, another one to enter the parlour.

I would think anyone with any construction knowledge could follow that logic.

You dont build 2 doors to access a Parlour within a home, nor can I ever imagine a need for 2, since the one that leads in from the house is ample.

Best regards.

[Stephen Thomas]

I was referring to the side doors in line with the passage, Stephen - not the wonky partition.

Sam

Why would those Georgian architects have two doors leading to the same place?

[Sam Flynn]

Rob,

Yes, that's it! Exactly.

Agreed, apart from... best not mention it

I reckon Stephen's drawing was darned close, too. Perhaps something halfway between his and Rob's would be a pretty good reconstruction.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Rob,

Yes, that's it! Exactly.

All the best

[Sam Flynn]

No way, Sam, absolutely no way. The wonky partition was an 'add on'.

I was referring to the side doors in line with the passage, Stephen - not the wonky partition.

[Stephen Thomas]

It's possible that the side entrances - "Prater's" in the passage, and "Mary's" just beyond the end of the passage - had been there all along.

No way, Sam, absolutely no way. The wonky partition was an 'add on'.

Some fine illustrations Rob and others, thanks. I do think that there is almost no chance that the door inside the archway led only to stairs however, as Marys partition "wall" is actually nothing of the sort. If you review the wall where the blood splashes are, you will see that an old door, with a faded #26 on it, is actually fixed... plastered in place in an old doorway, that led from the room to the hallway and stairs, and the door exiting the building inside the archway.

The door would never have led directly to only stairs, it was the only door that allowed access into the parlour as well, as I believe Marys door to "13" was added when the room was converted to a single occupancy room. I dont believe you will find an entrance directly to that room from the courtyard until the conversion took place. That is why there is no window on that same wall, it wasnt needed, with two on the existing wall facing the alcove and court. So they only added the door, far too close to the corner actually. Where Marys bed and night table is was likely the place a chaise, couch, or chairs faced the fireplace.

Originally, to have the only door facing Dorset leading to the shed only, and the only other door leading only to stairs, the parlour would have been inaccessible.

I realize that many variations would be possible, but this dwelling was built as a house, not a Lodging House, and at least one door had to access the parlour originally.

Best regards all.

[Rob Clack]

This is my best guess at the layout of the ground and first floors of 26 Dorset Street.

Ground Floor:



First Floor:



Rob

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Something like this Glenn? As far as I understand the discussion thus far this ought to make sense.....maybe!

Hi John,

Yes, that looks about right, according to the picture I have in my head from Jane's possible description. There most certainly may have existed a second doorway or entrance in the passageway, before Kelly's door.

All the best

[Sam Flynn]

I wonder would they need to knock a door through the outside wall? Hi John,

but with your stairs being where they are, I wonder would they need to knock a door through the outside wall? It seems to me it'd be easier for Liz Prater to just come in the front door and walk up the stairs that way...

...however, as the front room on the ground floor was McCarthy's "shed", it is unlikely to have been accessible to residents.

I wonder would they need to knock a door through the outside wall?

They might not have had to. It's possible that the side entrances - "Prater's" in the passage, and "Mary's" just beyond the end of the passage - had been there all along.

[John Casey]

Hi Stephen, your graphic would answer one question but pose another one, the way I'm looking at it (which may of course be totally wrong! ). The hallway running the length of the house would explain the smaller window in Kelly's room, but with your stairs being where they are, I wonder would they need to knock a door through the outside wall? It seems to me it'd be easier for Liz Prater to just come in the front door and walk up the stairs that way.....which of course would eliminate the need to build a set of stairs for the upstairs flats. Hm.....if only we had access to the original planning application, or whatever official paperwork was needed to alter the premises.