Could MJK have survived Miller's Court

[Fleetwood Mac]

I don't see why Jon - Fish and Chips was a well established meal for the working classes by 1888; it would be unrealistic to suggest that it wasn't available on the streets of London. In fact, there almost certainly were numerous 'fast food' outlets on the streets - it would have been a great business opportunity for so many reasons.

And fish and potatoes - what's it going to be, bought most likely on the way home from the pub? Eels and mash maybe; but Fish and Chips is quite plausible.

Apparently, fish and chips was sold out of people's homes around that time.

What about the possibility that it was sold out of the doss house over the road?

Annie Chapman was last seen eating a potato of sorts in a doss house. These places had kitchens.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Late night/early morning suppers were available at McCarthy's Dorset Street shop.

Regards,

Simon

[RivkahChaya]

Or, if the neighborhood was really that Jewish, knish & gefilte fish.

[Sally]

Apparently, fish and chips was sold out of people's homes around that time.

What about the possibility that it was sold out of the doss house over the road?

Annie Chapman was last seen eating a potato of sorts in a doss house. These places had kitchens.

Yes, FM, quite possible. It makes sense.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Yes, FM, quite possible. It makes sense.

Hello Sally,

McCarthy's is a decent enough bet, but perhaps she was keeping her head down due to swerving her rent obligations.

The doss house isn't a bad idea as she would have had somewhere to sit while she ate, in the same way that people go to a curry house to eat after a night on the beer rather than eat at home.

[Wickerman]

McCarthy's is a decent enough bet, but perhaps she was keeping her head down due to swerving her rent obligations.

She did buy a 1/2 p candle from McCarthy on the Wednesday.

Regards, Jon S.

[Wickerman]

Some posts earlier he was a customer among many, now he's a friend.

Not a friend like Harvey, Venturney or maybe even Albrook.
We don't know enough about him to label him as anything Dave.

Regards, Jon S.

[RivkahChaya]

She did buy a 1/2 p candle from McCarthy on the Wednesday.

Yes, but McCarthy was probably the best and closest source for cheap candles, while there were probably lots of places for cheap food.

Not a friend like Harvey, Venturney or maybe even Albrook.
We don't know enough about him to label him as anything Dave.

Where does the word "friend" originate? Is it something he calls himself? or does it appear in the papers, or police notes?

I don't know that much about the genuine vernacular, but I know about the language people used in literature, and I'm guessing that "friend" is more likely to be a euphemism for customer, while what we might call a friend in modern terms would have been called an "acquaintance" then. Like I said, I don't know about the Whitechapel vernacular, but what I do know of written language that has survived, it was unusual to refer to a man and woman who were both unmarried, as "friends."

Now, if Hutchinson himself is the one who first used the word, then it's hard to say what he meant to imply. I think it would be odd for him to implicate himself as a customer, so possibly he meant something else. Maybe he meant that he was seeing her, since Barnett had left her (which makes asking to borrow money more understandable), or maybe he just used the word to give his statement more credibility.

[RivkahChaya]

She did buy a 1/2 p candle from McCarthy on the Wednesday.

Yes, but McCarthy was probably the best and closest source for cheap candles, while there were probably lots of places for cheap food.

Not a friend like Harvey, Venturney or maybe even Albrook.
We don't know enough about him to label him as anything Dave.

Where does the word "friend" originate? Is it something he calls himself? or does it appear in the papers, or police notes?

I don't know that much about the genuine vernacular, but I know about the language people used in literature, and I'm guessing that "friend" is more likely to be a euphemism for customer, while what we might call a friend in modern terms would have been called an "acquaintance" then. Like I said, I don't know about the Whitechapel vernacular, but what I do know of written language that has survived, it was unusual to refer to a man and woman who were both unmarried, as "friends."

Now, if Hutchinson himself is the one who first used the word, then it's hard to say what he meant to imply. I think it would be odd for him to implicate himself as a customer, so possibly he meant something else. Maybe he meant that he was seeing her, since Barnett had left her (which makes asking to borrow money more understandable), or maybe he just used the word to give his statement more credibility.

[RivkahChaya]

I don't know what that mortarboard icon is for on the above post, and I can't get rid of it.

[Sally]

Hi Rivkah

Where does the word "friend" originate? Is it something he calls himself? or does it appear in the papers, or police notes?

I may be wrong but I'm not sure it originates anywhere. All that Hutchinson says is that he'd known Kelly for about 3 years and used to give her money sometimes.

It is more his account of their conversation, and of his watchful 45 minute vigil that gives the impression that they knew each other quite well and saw each other quite often. Now that might have been the truth, or it might have been an impression that he wanted to create to lend his account more credibility.

[RivkahChaya]

It is more his account of their conversation, and of his watchful 45 minute vigil that gives the impression that they knew each other quite well and saw each other quite often. Now that might have been the truth, or it might have been an impression that he wanted to create to lend his account more credibility.

That sounds more like "creepy stalker," than "friend."

[Wickerman]

Where does the word "friend" originate? Is it something he calls himself? or does it appear in the papers, or police notes?

And to expand on Sally's reply, Hutchinson apparently told the press:
"...I met the woman Kelly, whom I knew very well, having been in her company a number of times."

Certainly implies as a customer/client. This "friend"(ly) exchange seems to have gone off on a tangent.
The original point I think was to question why Hutchinson resisted coming forward, which is another "much-ado-about-nuthin" type argument.

There's enough coincidental evidence between Sarah Lewis and Geo. Hutchinson to reasonably accept he might have been there at the appointed time. If so, then he did not make the whole story up, but it is also reasonable to ask, why was he there, and why for so long?

Is he telling the absolute truth?

Regards, Jon S.

[Cogidubnus]

She did buy a 1/2 p candle from McCarthy on the Wednesday

Hi Jon

Since we're such sticklers for accuracy here, no she didn't...she bought a half "d" candle from McCarthy...the "d" (from denarius) was only replaced by "p" on 15th February 1971...the "p" is actually 2.4 x the value of a "d", so it's a fair old difference!

All the best

Dave

[DanaeChantel]

Thank you. most sensible post in this whole thread.

Thank you, MUCH, MUCH agreed.