Could MJK have survived Miller's Court

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  • Fleetwood Mac
    Inactive
    • Mar 2010
    • 2642

    #286
    Originally posted by Sally View Post
    I don't see why Jon - Fish and Chips was a well established meal for the working classes by 1888; it would be unrealistic to suggest that it wasn't available on the streets of London. In fact, there almost certainly were numerous 'fast food' outlets on the streets - it would have been a great business opportunity for so many reasons.

    And fish and potatoes - what's it going to be, bought most likely on the way home from the pub? Eels and mash maybe; but Fish and Chips is quite plausible.
    Apparently, fish and chips was sold out of people's homes around that time.

    What about the possibility that it was sold out of the doss house over the road?

    Annie Chapman was last seen eating a potato of sorts in a doss house. These places had kitchens.

    Comment

    • Simon Wood
      Commissioner
      • Feb 2008
      • 5551

      #287
      Hi All,

      Late night/early morning suppers were available at McCarthy's Dorset Street shop.

      Regards,

      Simon
      Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

      Comment

      • RivkahChaya
        Inspector
        • Aug 2012
        • 1382

        #288
        Or, if the neighborhood was really that Jewish, knish & gefilte fish.

        Comment

        • Sally
          Superintendent
          • Sep 2010
          • 2100

          #289
          Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post
          Apparently, fish and chips was sold out of people's homes around that time.

          What about the possibility that it was sold out of the doss house over the road?

          Annie Chapman was last seen eating a potato of sorts in a doss house. These places had kitchens.
          Yes, FM, quite possible. It makes sense.

          Comment

          • Fleetwood Mac
            Inactive
            • Mar 2010
            • 2642

            #290
            Originally posted by Sally View Post
            Yes, FM, quite possible. It makes sense.
            Hello Sally,

            McCarthy's is a decent enough bet, but perhaps she was keeping her head down due to swerving her rent obligations.

            The doss house isn't a bad idea as she would have had somewhere to sit while she ate, in the same way that people go to a curry house to eat after a night on the beer rather than eat at home.

            Comment

            • Wickerman
              Commissioner
              • Oct 2008
              • 14864

              #291
              Originally posted by Fleetwood Mac View Post

              McCarthy's is a decent enough bet, but perhaps she was keeping her head down due to swerving her rent obligations.
              She did buy a 1/2 p candle from McCarthy on the Wednesday.

              Regards, Jon S.
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment

              • Wickerman
                Commissioner
                • Oct 2008
                • 14864

                #292
                Originally posted by DVV View Post
                Some posts earlier he was a customer among many, now he's a friend.
                Not a friend like Harvey, Venturney or maybe even Albrook.
                We don't know enough about him to label him as anything Dave.

                Regards, Jon S.
                Regards, Jon S.

                Comment

                • RivkahChaya
                  Inspector
                  • Aug 2012
                  • 1382

                  #293
                  Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                  She did buy a 1/2 p candle from McCarthy on the Wednesday.
                  Yes, but McCarthy was probably the best and closest source for cheap candles, while there were probably lots of places for cheap food.
                  Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                  Not a friend like Harvey, Venturney or maybe even Albrook.
                  We don't know enough about him to label him as anything Dave.
                  Where does the word "friend" originate? Is it something he calls himself? or does it appear in the papers, or police notes?

                  I don't know that much about the genuine vernacular, but I know about the language people used in literature, and I'm guessing that "friend" is more likely to be a euphemism for customer, while what we might call a friend in modern terms would have been called an "acquaintance" then. Like I said, I don't know about the Whitechapel vernacular, but what I do know of written language that has survived, it was unusual to refer to a man and woman who were both unmarried, as "friends."

                  Now, if Hutchinson himself is the one who first used the word, then it's hard to say what he meant to imply. I think it would be odd for him to implicate himself as a customer, so possibly he meant something else. Maybe he meant that he was seeing her, since Barnett had left her (which makes asking to borrow money more understandable), or maybe he just used the word to give his statement more credibility.

                  Comment

                  • RivkahChaya
                    Inspector
                    • Aug 2012
                    • 1382

                    #294
                    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                    She did buy a 1/2 p candle from McCarthy on the Wednesday.
                    Yes, but McCarthy was probably the best and closest source for cheap candles, while there were probably lots of places for cheap food.
                    Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                    Not a friend like Harvey, Venturney or maybe even Albrook.
                    We don't know enough about him to label him as anything Dave.
                    Where does the word "friend" originate? Is it something he calls himself? or does it appear in the papers, or police notes?

                    I don't know that much about the genuine vernacular, but I know about the language people used in literature, and I'm guessing that "friend" is more likely to be a euphemism for customer, while what we might call a friend in modern terms would have been called an "acquaintance" then. Like I said, I don't know about the Whitechapel vernacular, but what I do know of written language that has survived, it was unusual to refer to a man and woman who were both unmarried, as "friends."

                    Now, if Hutchinson himself is the one who first used the word, then it's hard to say what he meant to imply. I think it would be odd for him to implicate himself as a customer, so possibly he meant something else. Maybe he meant that he was seeing her, since Barnett had left her (which makes asking to borrow money more understandable), or maybe he just used the word to give his statement more credibility.

                    Comment

                    • RivkahChaya
                      Inspector
                      • Aug 2012
                      • 1382

                      #295
                      I don't know what that mortarboard icon is for on the above post, and I can't get rid of it.

                      Comment

                      • Sally
                        Superintendent
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 2100

                        #296
                        Hi Rivkah

                        Where does the word "friend" originate? Is it something he calls himself? or does it appear in the papers, or police notes?
                        I may be wrong but I'm not sure it originates anywhere. All that Hutchinson says is that he'd known Kelly for about 3 years and used to give her money sometimes.

                        It is more his account of their conversation, and of his watchful 45 minute vigil that gives the impression that they knew each other quite well and saw each other quite often. Now that might have been the truth, or it might have been an impression that he wanted to create to lend his account more credibility.

                        Comment

                        • RivkahChaya
                          Inspector
                          • Aug 2012
                          • 1382

                          #297
                          Originally posted by Sally View Post
                          It is more his account of their conversation, and of his watchful 45 minute vigil that gives the impression that they knew each other quite well and saw each other quite often. Now that might have been the truth, or it might have been an impression that he wanted to create to lend his account more credibility.
                          That sounds more like "creepy stalker," than "friend."

                          Comment

                          • Wickerman
                            Commissioner
                            • Oct 2008
                            • 14864

                            #298
                            Originally posted by RivkahChaya View Post
                            Where does the word "friend" originate? Is it something he calls himself? or does it appear in the papers, or police notes?
                            And to expand on Sally's reply, Hutchinson apparently told the press:
                            "...I met the woman Kelly, whom I knew very well, having been in her company a number of times."

                            Certainly implies as a customer/client. This "friend"(ly) exchange seems to have gone off on a tangent.
                            The original point I think was to question why Hutchinson resisted coming forward, which is another "much-ado-about-nuthin" type argument.

                            There's enough coincidental evidence between Sarah Lewis and Geo. Hutchinson to reasonably accept he might have been there at the appointed time. If so, then he did not make the whole story up, but it is also reasonable to ask, why was he there, and why for so long?

                            Is he telling the absolute truth?

                            Regards, Jon S.
                            Regards, Jon S.

                            Comment

                            • Cogidubnus
                              Assistant Commissioner
                              • Feb 2012
                              • 3266

                              #299
                              She did buy a 1/2 p candle from McCarthy on the Wednesday
                              Hi Jon

                              Since we're such sticklers for accuracy here, no she didn't...she bought a half "d" candle from McCarthy...the "d" (from denarius) was only replaced by "p" on 15th February 1971...the "p" is actually 2.4 x the value of a "d", so it's a fair old difference!

                              All the best

                              Dave

                              Comment

                              • DanaeChantel
                                Constable
                                • Mar 2010
                                • 65

                                #300
                                Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                                Thank you. most sensible post in this whole thread.
                                Thank you, MUCH, MUCH agreed.

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