Could MJK have survived Miller's Court

[lynn cates]

"The Echo"

Hello Jon. Thanks.

I would have thought as much. Early on there was a report in "The Echo" indicating that she had worked for an abortionist. It was a mistake; story retracted. Their reporter returned to London admitting he could not find a trace of "MJK" in Cardiff.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Was Barnett the source or was it in a newspaper?

Cheers.
LC

It was in a newspaper, the story attributed to Barnett.

"...Her father came from Wales, and tried to find her there; but, hearing from her companions that he was looking for her, Marie kept out of the way..."

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/star/s881112.html

All the best, Jon

[lynn cates]

source

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Was Barnett the source or was it in a newspaper?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Might be quite beneficial given an older man were looking for her and she wished his real identity to remain unknown. Besides, I'd like to see something tangible in the story.

Cheers.
LC

Whoever this older man was she did not appear to want to stop him talking with all who knew her, and explaining who he was to all of them. If she wished to keep him incognito wouldn't it have been more beneficial for her not to avoid him but meet up with him ASAP and usher him out of sight?

Alternately, if this older man wished her harm, given Mary had created a likeable persona among her acquaintances, she would have been better asking them to hide her whereabouts and subsequently never mention his existence to anyone, especially Barnett, when she is making some effort to settle down.

Otherwise, she would become a sitting target.....


Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

story

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Might be quite beneficial given an older man were looking for her and she wished his real identity to remain unknown. Besides, I'd like to see something tangible in the story.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon.

"So when her father came looking for her in the East end, and she claimed to be avoiding him?"

Can you point me to the origin of this story?

Cheers.
LC

The origin of the news story? c'mon now Lynn, your memory can't be any worse than mine

It is easy to dismiss all the second hand stories we read about her past, and some of them, like how she descended into the life she led, and the trip to France, might be in the first case, an excuse, and in the second, pure fantasy.
However, it is difficult to imagine the benefit of her inventing the story of her father coming from Wales to look for her.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

tragedy

Hello Don. Not unlike Liz Stride with her Princess Alice disaster.

Cheers.
LC

[Supe]

In an un-documented age free of most bureacratic infringements upon life (o frabjous day, calloo callay) as in the LVP all that was really needed was a convincing story (and depending on the circles in which you moved the line need not have been overly convincing).

Andy Aliffe had a fascinating story in Ripperologist 71 (September 2006) about Sadie Orchard, a "soiled dove" from the East End and a contemporary of some of Jack's victims. She set up as a bordello proprietor in the American West and became a famed and successful madam known far and wide.

It was only years later that it was revealed she came from a proper Missouri family and had made up the Sadie Orchard persona that fooled everyone. Whatever else, she must have been one heck of an actress.

Don.

[lynn cates]

Whom?

Hello (again) Jon.

"She was, there is only one woman who closely fits the bio we have been served with."

And she would be . . . ?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

origin

Hello Jon.

"So when her father came looking for her in the East end, and she claimed to be avoiding him?"

Can you point me to the origin of this story?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hi Michael and Jon

Well, Bob Hinton has said that the best way to have an alias with an alias's history, is to assume the identity of a real person. Apparently they do that in the world of spying etc. But if Mary stole the name and history of an acqaintance, then we are left with the same problem : why has the said acquaintance not been found?

She was, there is only one woman who closely fits the bio we have been served with.
But, we don't know what happened to her cousin.

[Robert]

Hi Michael and Jon

Well, Bob Hinton has said that the best way to have an alias with an alias's history, is to assume the identity of a real person. Apparently they do that in the world of spying etc. But if Mary stole the name and history of an acqaintance, then we are left with the same problem : why has the said acquaintance not been found?

[Wickerman]

Or she may have been MJK, but the stories she told may have been hogwash.

Another consideration, have you ever heard of people adopting a friends identity?

Regards, Jon S.

[Wickerman]

If she was Mary Jane Kelly on a birth certificate somewhere,...from either Wales, Ireland or England, it would have been found by now by one or more of the excellent researchers who are members here.

Like scores of others of that time, I believe its an alias she used....which raises a good question in my mind....did she use an alias due to her shame with her life and occupation....past bills unpaid maybe...or was she fearful of being found if she used her real name?

Hi Michael.

So when her father came looking for her in the East end, and she claimed to be avoiding him?, who was he looking for if it was not the name Mary Kelly, which was the name everyone in the East end knew her by.

Regards, Jon S.

[Michael W Richards]

Or she may have been MJK, but the stories she told may have been hogwash.

Possibly Robert,...but then why would we believe she would provide anyone with her correct name while at the same time creating her history? If she invented her past I believe its probable she would have invented a name to use with it.

If she was Mary Jane Kelly on a birth certificate somewhere,...from either Wales, Ireland or England, it would have been found by now by one or more of the excellent researchers who are members here.

Like scores of others of that time, I believe its an alias she used....which raises a good question in my mind....did she use an alias due to her shame with her life and occupation....past bills unpaid maybe...or was she fearful of being found if she used her real name?

If its the 3rd reason.....then she would have had links to people capable of doing her harm. Perhaps with what they believed was good reason. Being a traitor...a snitch....and informant perhaps.

The years prior to the murders many National Security Police agencies were in the habit of sending their members to socialize and spy on Fenians staying in Paris, could she have been on one side or the other when she visited France, as an "escort" years earlier? Might what she learned at that time put her at risk later down the road?

Speculation of course...but interesting how many ties with France and Paris specifically we have to many of the Senior Investigators in the Ripper cases, and to many prominent terrorists, Fenian and otherwise.

For example....Anderson is recalled from Paris, not Switzerland, which we are to believe was his destination.

Cheers Robert