Could MJK have survived Miller's Court

[RavenDarkendale]

Hi, Raven,
I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of the details of how you see things happening.

curious

http://www.casebook.org/victims/mary_jane_kelly.html

It would go along with this time, until this point:

Between 3:00am and 4:00am, both MJK and her client leave her room. Another prostitute and client go in, as MJK often shared her room and bed with other unfortunates. MJK likely finds herself something to drink with the money she earned.

4:00am, the cry of "Oh! Murder!" is reported by Elizabeth Prater and Sarah Lewis. This is just a thought, but could MJK have discovered the body then?

6:30am Mrs. Cox thinks she hears someone leave. Thought, MJK or JtR?

8:30 Caroline Maxwell spots MJK and gets a good enough look to describe the clothing in detail. Italics mine.

10:00am Maurice Lewis spots MJK. No mention is made in this report that she was drinking, but that Lewis had seen her and Barnett drinking in the Horn of Plenty Public House the night before.

10:30 Body discovered by Thomas Bowyer, sent to collect six weeks back rent from MJK for John McCarthy.

Interlude: It has already been noted that six weeks is a long time to wait on rent in Whitechapel, and perhaps MJK had other ways of paying. Perhaps that is where MJK went after she discovered the body. Did McCarthy dispatch Bowyer to fetch rent or to make certain the body was discovered after Mary allowed herself to be seen alive?

1:30 police gain entrance to the room at no. 13 Examination places death around 4:00 - 6:00am since it is stated that both witnesses saw MJK alive several hours after TOD. Certainly the body in the bed was dead long before 8:30am

The inquest is rushed and MJK hastily buried.

Mary vanishes either into the Abyss or perhaps manages to return to Ireland.

Everything hinges on whether Barnett actually was able to correctly ID the body. As some has said, the feet, the hands, and the hair were there, all bloodstained but possible to identify. Unless Barnett were, as some expect, JtR, in which case he knew exactly whether it was MJK or not. Having survived his own brush with the police as a suspect, he likely wasn't going to try to trace MJK.

Final point: People are already calling this a lot of conjecture (which it is) and a waste of time (which it is not). As my collection of Jack the Ripper solution books continues to grow, I find my conjecture no more fantastic than a lot of the published books!

God bless

Raven Darkendale

[moonbegger]

Hello all ,

What i find peculiar is that on the morning of the the 9th November , before the remains of this poor victim were discovered .. it seems that most people had a grasp of who Mary kelly was ! but just after Eddows murder in mitre square 39 days earlier , the police made inquiries into a Mary Kelly who according to a pawn ticket lived in Dorset street , and at that time no one had herd of her ? ( Eddows gave her name as Mary Kelly to Bishopsgate police , and they found a pawn ticket connecting a Mary Ann to Dorset street next to her body )

[QUOTE] if Mary found the body, she would have fled the scene thinking, "My God! That could have been me!"[/QUOTE

Especially if she had read the news paper reports just after the Eddows murder that proclaimed the victims name was a Mary Kelly ! she would have for sure had an uneasy feeling that someone was out to get her !

cheers

moonbegger

[miss marple]

just looking at the entry for Joseph Fleming being 6 7. It looks like 6.1 to me which is still quite tall but not excessive. The entry is made with a dip pen. a small serrif with a blot is at the top of the one. Doing a serrif on the would make it easier to get the flow of the downward stroke, the small blot under the serrif is typical of the loose ink that falls from a dip pen.
Just a suggestion.

Mary's stomach contents were still partially digested, which knocks out a morning death. Tjhat is fact not speculation.

Miss Marple

[curious]

But it isn't complicated. Conjecture, certainly, but looking from the viewpoint that it wasn't MJK's body, the rest follows logically.

Regards

Raven

Hi, Raven,
I'd be interested in seeing a breakdown of the details of how you see things happening.

curious

[RavenDarkendale]

Of course, it is possible Barnett was too shaken to be able to really look at the body closely.



If unplanned, of course, and MJK walked in on the horror of that room and lit out in horror and fear, she may have heard later that everyone thought it was she and perhaps been relieved that she would be safe.


As I've said, too complicated, I think, to be believable.

curious

@ curious

You make two good points here. Anyone being asked to identify a body as horrible as the one in number 13 probably didn't look too closely at it, especially if, as Phil remarks, he had done the murder.

Secondly, if Mary found the body, she would have fled the scene thinking, "My God! That could have been me!" Then as you say, word got to her that the body had been identified as her, so she felt safe. Someone spoke of why wasn't she a West End prostitute. She had been, and perhaps returned using a different name.

But it isn't complicated. Conjecture, certainly, but looking from the viewpoint that it wasn't MJK's body, the rest follows logically.

Regards

Raven