Limerick, the Key?

[Debra A]

The implication is that the story broke first in the northern counties (where it's reported) because that's the direction by which Kelly's family or friends made their way to London. For some reason the London press may have been been given orders (by police?) to sequester information on the family or friends arrival by the time they reached in London --apparently after her inquest had ended. Thus, the family could cooperate with the police without interference from the London press.

But the story also appears in two Irish papers, Gloucester (South West England), Scotland and London as well as Manchester and all on the same date of the 15th of November. They all say the funeral may be postponed until Monday because of this.
The day after, the 16th, the papers report that the funeral will definitely be Monday and that the family are not expected to attend.

[Debra A]

The story appeared in the London papers the day before on the 14th. Here's two examples from the Morning Post and the Standard:

[The Good Michael]

Debs,

It is interesting that the clipping talks of relatives coming and the inscription with Jeanette as the middle name. It seems as if, by the article, that the family would have known about the inscription then... if the article is accurate.

Mike

[Debra A]

Debs,

It is interesting that the clipping talks of relatives coming and the inscription with Jeanette as the middle name. It seems as if, by the article, that the family would have known about the inscription then... if the article is accurate.

Mike

Mike, I always thought it had been Wilton's choice for the coffin inscription, based on what Barnett had said about Marie Jeanette being her real name, and seeing as he was paying? It sounds to me as if the funeral, coffin, inscriptions etc. were all arranged before the mention of the family being expected.

[The Good Michael]

Mike, I always thought it had been Wilton's choice for the coffin inscription, based on what Barnett had said about Marie Jeanette being her real name, and seeing as he was paying? It sounds to me as if the funeral, coffin, inscriptions etc. were all arranged before the mention of the family being expected.

Debs,

I thought so too before you posted this clipping. If someone was in touch with the family, it's possible they had the chance to approve or disapprove of the inscription. I mean, even a guy footing the bill would have asked, I think.

Mike

[Debra A]

Yes, I'd have thought so too.
So, either she was named 'Marie Jeanette Kelly' as she told Barnett, or, Wilton had no notion that the family had been traced and the two stories are separate stories just linked in the press?

[Bridewell]

Manchester

Just on the off-chance that the story did originate in Manchester, I've had a look for Kelly families in that area in the 1871 census. Living at 15, Back Lane, Blackley is a John Kelly, married to Elizabeth. The children are Mary (7), Hannah (5) & Henry (1 month). John was born in Manchester & the children in Blackley. Elizabeth (& her mother, Elizabeth McCann, who was living with them) were born in Dublin. I guess a child raised by two Irish women might pick up an Irish accent to a degree. This will of course be demolished when they're all alive and well in 1891. Watch this space!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Stephen Thomas]

I presume that their junket was "on the house"? Just had a colleague return from a week in England, including a couple days at Oxford. His remark, "It's amazing how comfortable one can make oneself on other people's money."

Hi Lynn

Yes, I remember a quick Q&A article with Mel Brooks in a London newspaper and when asked what his favourite food was he said 'If you're paying I like sirloin steak with Chateaux Lafitte 1953. If I'm paying I like cabbage and potatoes'.

Hi Debra

Thanks for your studied reply to my question earlier.

[Debra A]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"if you type "six brothers living" into the Press Reports Search window you'll see a few different versions of that."

Absolutely. But, as I said, if you like newspaper stories . . .

Cheers.
LC

People only ever like newspaper stories that agree with their take on things, though, Lynn.

[lynn cates]

give and take

Hello Debs. That's true enough. But imagine what it's like when NONE of them agree with you, given your take.

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

What if she was French? Or half... say her mother. It might explain some things.

[miss marple]

As a break from checking Wales. I looked at the 1871 Census for London. I found this-

6 Chambers St Whitechapel
Margaret Kelly age 30, tayloress, married born Ireland, Limerick
Mary Ann daugh age 7 born Ireland, Limerick
Margaret daugh age 2 born Ireland, Limerick
Mr Kelly is not present.
Chambers St runs parallell with Royal Mint St, near the docks, a heavy Irish area, where Joe Barnett once lived as a child.
I had a quick look at the Irish records to see if I could find the birth of those girls.
Margaret Kelly born 8th May 1868, Limerick, parents John Kelly and Margaret Cremins
Could not find a close match for Mary, only Mary Kelly born Feb 4th 1866 Adare Limerick parents John Kelly Margaret Cummins, This name could be mistranscribed as could the date.
Margaret must have been in London less than two years, her husband could have been a docker, or maybe he was in Wales.

Miss Marple

[Debra A]

Hi all,
No one has said much so I'm just wondering-what does anyone else make of these reports that the family were travelling from Wales to London and the funeral was postponed as a result?

[lynn cates]

Godot

Hello Debs. Well, if true, it might indicate that some of Barnett's story about her family were true.

But since they seem not to have arrived, one would have expected a good reason printed in those same papers.

When it comes to Kelly's family, one feels as though he were waiting for Godot.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

As a break from checking Wales. I looked at the 1871 Census for London. I found this-

6 Chambers St Whitechapel
Margaret Kelly age 30, tayloress, married born Ireland, Limerick
Mary Ann daugh age 7 born Ireland, Limerick
Margaret daugh age 2 born Ireland, Limerick
Mr Kelly is not present.
Chambers St runs parallell with Royal Mint St, near the docks, a heavy Irish area, where Joe Barnett once lived as a child.
I had a quick look at the Irish records to see if I could find the birth of those girls.
Margaret Kelly born 8th May 1868, Limerick, parents John Kelly and Margaret Cremins
Could not find a close match for Mary, only Mary Kelly born Feb 4th 1866 Adare Limerick parents John Kelly Margaret Cummins, This name could be mistranscribed as could the date.
Margaret must have been in London less than two years, her husband could have been a docker, or maybe he was in Wales.

Miss Marple

I find this very interesting, and if Cremins was written in cursive, I can see it being read as Cummins or vice versa.

Any luck finding them in a later census?