Kellys in the Scots Guards

[Bridewell]

Hi All,

Returning to the subject of the thread

If, as has been suggested may be the case, MJK had Fenian links, what view would the authorities have taken of her having a brother serving in the Scots Guards, who had just been posted to Ireland?
Depending on where her sympathies lay, brother Henry could have been a Fenian agent infiltrating the British Army or a British soldier who was used to infiltrate one of the organisations within the Fenian umbrella. The latter would be a very good reason for his name not appearing in the official lists.

Regards, Bridewell.

[PaulB]

Hi Paul, how are you?

Hi everybody. I'm just catching up with the thread after being gone for a few days- lots of interesting issues have been raised!

When I first saw the name "Buki", it reminded me of French surnames like "De Buque". To an English speaker unfamiliar with French pronunciation "De Buque" could look like it's pronounced "De Buki".

"Buki" also struck me as possibly having Jewish origins, so I looked it up and found that "Buki" is indeed a Jewish surname. It has variants which include "Bukic", "Bukid", etc.

Here's a Jewish genealogy site which covers the name Buki: http://www.hebrewsurnames.com/BUKI

Hope this might be of use to those of you researching Mrs. Buki.

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi A,
I'm fine, thanks. And you? Interesting stuff. Most of the names I found on Ancestry are 'foreign', but most post-date 1888 and/or don't appear in the Census. A Kasche Buki was born in St. George in the East in 1900. And there's a Hans Buki from Berlin in 1911. So they were kicking around. Just not easy to find.

[Archaic]

Buki

Hi Paul, how are you?

Hi everybody. I'm just catching up with the thread after being gone for a few days- lots of interesting issues have been raised!

When I first saw the name "Buki", it reminded me of French surnames like "De Buque". To an English speaker unfamiliar with French pronunciation "De Buque" could look like it's pronounced "De Buki".

"Buki" also struck me as possibly having Jewish origins, so I looked it up and found that "Buki" is indeed a Jewish surname. It has variants which include "Bukic", "Bukid", etc.

Here's a Jewish genealogy site which covers the name Buki: http://www.hebrewsurnames.com/BUKI

Hope this might be of use to those of you researching Mrs. Buki.

Best regards,
Archaic

[PaulB]

Hello Norma. Thanks. Yes, and "Miss Worth's" friend was Llewelynn Winter--a target for Monro. He escaped to France after being tipped by Sir Ed.

Davitt inadvertently tipped Sullivan about Dr. Cronin. But Davitt and Sir Ed met in Paris, mid-October, to do some "horse trading." Did Sir Ed slip and say something about MJK?

Davitt then (according to Campbell) had a "friendly chat" with John P Hayes--the London Bridge informant for Sir Ed. (Recall the explosion of 1884? 2 Lomasneys died as did a Fleming. I contacted the Lomasney family but they did not know who John Fleming was.)

All interesting stuff.

Cheers.
LC

Lynn,
Have you contacted Cambell about Mrs Worth and Co? His sources might provide a little more info or suggest a route for further investigation. He invited me to the launch of Fenian Fire, but I lost contact ages ago. He seemed quite approachable though. He has a new book out called Target London. I'm sure you could make contact via Little, Brown.

[lynn cates]

cast

Hello Norma, Simon. Not to mention Red Jim was actively blackmailing Sir Ed.

What a cast!

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Sir Ed's escapades

Hello Norma. Thanks. Yes, and "Miss Worth's" friend was Llewelynn Winter--a target for Monro. He escaped to France after being tipped by Sir Ed.

Davitt inadvertently tipped Sullivan about Dr. Cronin. But Davitt and Sir Ed met in Paris, mid-October, to do some "horse trading." Did Sir Ed slip and say something about MJK?

Davitt then (according to Campbell) had a "friendly chat" with John P Hayes--the London Bridge informant for Sir Ed. (Recall the explosion of 1884? 2 Lomasneys died as did a Fleming. I contacted the Lomasney family but they did not know who John Fleming was.)

All interesting stuff.

Cheers.
LC

[PaulB]

Plus, wouldn't the inquest be more concerned with the events of Thursday night/Friday morning and less about Mary's past? That would have been more of a police concern maybe?

Re: Buki
There's also similar sounding names like Bucci Bucki, Buckie, Bucky, Bookey and many other variations that might be worth considering too.

...although neither of these things has anything to do with the Scots Guards.

Insofar as the inquest was to determine the events surrounding and the cause of death, yes, but as was Wynne Baxter's growing concern, with a series of crimes to which there was no foreseeable resolution, it was also important to take under oath the testimony of witnesses who could prove to be unavailable at a later date. But overall, Mrs Phoenix's testimony was largely second-hand as it was with 'Mrs Carthy' that Kelly had stayed.

[lynn cates]

Hyacinth Buki?

Hello Simon. Say, fancy goods? Interesting. That would go along with those clothes.

Cheers.
LC

[PaulB]

Hi Paul,

"A tad odd" should be writ large in the understatement Hall of Fame.

Regards,

Simon

Indeed. My exclamation mark was intended to convey that it was an understatement!

[lynn cates]

Hello Mr. Begg. Yes, a good bit of digging.

Someday?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

There are quite a lot of Bukis listed on Ancestry, although I haven't checked to see if they are all members of a single family. Hardly anybody was summoned to the inquest, and hardly any of the peripheral people like Mrs Phoenix, and her testimony was perhaps unverified and of questionable admissibility. 'Mrs Carthy' was the one who should have appeared, though, if they'd wanted the testimony about Kelly's past in the East End. I don't really see anything mysterious in their non-appearance, especially as the whole inquest was a tad odd!

Plus, wouldn't the inquest be more concerned with the events of Thursday night/Friday morning and less about Mary's past? That would have been more of a police concern maybe?

Re: Buki
There's also similar sounding names like Bucci Bucki, Buckie, Bucky, Bookey and many other variations that might be worth considering too.

...although neither of these things has anything to do with the Scots Guards.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Paul,

"A tad odd" should be writ large in the understatement Hall of Fame.

Regards,

Simon

[PaulB]

Hi Paul,

As spelled, BMD lists a Buki birth in 1900 and a marriage in 1934. LDS gives us two deaths, in 1979 and 1986. The name Buki also appears in various unconnected newspaper reports.

Slim pickings indeed but, with a fair likelihood of the name Buki being correct, one wonders why the remarkably well-informed Mrs Elizabeth Phoenix, who on 11th November took the trouble to give the Leman Street cops "a statement . . . which it is thought will satisfactorily establish the identity of the murdered woman", wasn't summoned next day to the Kelly inquest as a witness.

The only witnesses to appear were those who had first been interviewed on 9th November.

Regards,

Simon

There are quite a lot of Bukis listed on Ancestry, although I haven't checked to see if they are all members of a single family. Hardly anybody was summoned to the inquest, and hardly any of the peripheral people like Mrs Phoenix, and her testimony was perhaps unverified and of questionable admissibility. 'Mrs Carthy' was the one who should have appeared, though, if they'd wanted the testimony about Kelly's past in the East End. I don't really see anything mysterious in their non-appearance, especially as the whole inquest was a tad odd!

[Simon Wood]

Hi Norma,

I find it intriguing that Edward Jenkinson was in Vienna at the time Jonas Elp was stringing along the UK Austrian Ambassador and Foreign Office with an unlikely Jack the Ripper yarn to the tune of £160.

What was it PT Barnum once said?

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Paul,
No problem about my book----
I do think Jenkinson had had his own idiosyncratic way of looking at things in Dublin Castle with his boss Earl Spencer.After his removal he became a Parnell supporter etc. and his network of agents were ,it appears, the source of many rows with Scotland Yard ....Monro in particular who saw the way he worked with this circle of agents as illegal-some of these people had apparently been drawn from pubs and even its sometimes said brothels-----[could Miss Worth have been one such lady I wonder?]
Must go but good to chat Paul,
Norma