The ALLEGED photograph of Mary Jane Kelly

[Carol]

I've just started reading Bruce Paley's 'Jack the Ripper: The Simple Truth' and came across this reference to hats on page 37.

"In the wake of Kelly's death, a reporter from the Observer went walkabout through Dorset Street and its environs, recording his impressions. 'The passersby are comparatively few, and of the lowest order,' he observed, as he neared Dorset Street, 'navvies, dock labourers, and the heterogeneous class living in the common lodging houses which in this quarter abound. There was one other class in evidence, and this was unquestionably prominent. A large number of ragged and degraded women, women in draggle-tailed skirts and huge hats and feathers, women in gaudy dresses and hatless, women in every stage of drunkenness - these patrolled the street by the dozens, singing their loudest and jostling one another in their degradation.'

Carol

[The Good Michael]

I am confident that we can't absolutely date the hat to a specific year, and so I am basing my opinion on just the photos and family knowledge. I can safely say that I haven't a clue.

Mike

[ChrisGeorge]

I am confident that we can't absolutely date the hat to a specific year, and so I am basing my opinion on just the photos and family knowledge. I can safely say that I haven't a clue.

Mike

Hi Mike

I can safely say you are not the only one.

Cheers

Chris

[Semper_Eadem]

[ATTACH]13568[/ATTACH]

Ostrich Feather Hat worn by The Unsinkable Margaret "Molly" Brown (of Titanic Fame), which seems to be of a not dissimilar style.

Regards, Bridewell.

Howdy Bridwell, that photo of Margaret Brown is definitely Edwardian. I still think the subject in the photo rebutted to be Mary Kelly is wearing a man's panama hat with a feather stuck on it. I would be very interested if somebody could post a picture of a man's panama hat for us to look at. The only one I have ever seen in the one on (Clark Gable)Rhett Butler's head in GWTW.

I remember reading somewhere in this topic that it was quite common for women to adapt men's hats for themselves and I could see that happening, after all a hat is a hat unless the fashion police went around in white chapel snagging men's hats off of women's heads. Fashion wasn't set in stone, especially for the lower classes.

Just me blabbing away, trying to make a point. I think even if this isn't Mary Kelly the photo is still worth something fashion wise given what it tells us about what some people were wearing.

Regards,
SE

[Steven Russell]

Hello, SE.
Definitely not a Panama, I would say (see pic). If it is a man's hat, he must have been in the Three Musketeers.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Cogidubnus]

Cat with the hat

I am confident that we can't absolutely date the hat to a specific year

That is a definitely verifiable fact...I think...

Dave

[Debra A]

I've just started reading Bruce Paley's 'Jack the Ripper: The Simple Truth' and came across this reference to hats on page 37.

"In the wake of Kelly's death, a reporter from the Observer went walkabout through Dorset Street and its environs, recording his impressions. 'The passersby are comparatively few, and of the lowest order,' he observed, as he neared Dorset Street, 'navvies, dock labourers, and the heterogeneous class living in the common lodging houses which in this quarter abound. There was one other class in evidence, and this was unquestionably prominent. A large number of ragged and degraded women, women in draggle-tailed skirts and huge hats and feathers, women in gaudy dresses and hatless, women in every stage of drunkenness - these patrolled the street by the dozens, singing their loudest and jostling one another in their degradation.'

Carol

Hi Carol, thanks for posting this. I knew I had read something similar somewhere but couldn't find it again! I also read that sailors used to bring the huge 'prized' feathers from abroad for prostitutes in the area.

[niko]

Ostrich - feather's

Hi everyone, I found this ostrich - feather manufacturer in Hatrfields commercial directory - JEWS OF THE UNITED KINGDOM, 5654 - 1894.

I wonder if back in 1888 you could an ostrich feather at Leman street at a cheap price or even find a not too damaged one in the rubbish generated by this manufacturer.

This is just a hypothesis, did East End woman get their ostrich feather's from this local ostrich - feather manufacturer and more important was this manufacturer around in 1888.

I also found this entry which really does not have nothing to do with this thread but I found interesting.
Kosminski, M, 48 Berner Street, wholesale furriers.
I supose the majority of you already knew this. Some of the trades entered in this book were established as far back as 1851 and further back. All the best, agur.

niko

[Carol]

Hi Carol, thanks for posting this. I knew I had read something similar somewhere but couldn't find it again! I also read that sailors used to bring the huge 'prized' feathers from abroad for prostitutes in the area.

Hi Debra,
Glad to be of help!
Carol

[Bridewell]

How did Mr Cohen "manufacture" ostrich feathers? Isn't that something ostriches are supposed to do?

Regards, Bridewell.

[niko]

How did Mr Cohen "manufacture" ostrich feathers? Isn't that something ostriches are supposed to do?

Regards, Bridewell.

Just what I thought when I read it, "must of had the place full of bird's" !!

niko

[bolo]

Hi Bridewell,

How did Mr Cohen "manufacture" ostrich feathers? Isn't that something ostriches are supposed to do?

it takes quite a bit of work to select, clean, dress, "comb" and dye these feathers in order to make them useable for milliners. They also have to be conserved to prevent the quills from rotting away (and stinking).

As far as I know, the French call these tradesmen plumassiers.

Mr Cohen probably had no ostriches of his own but got his supply of raw feathers from importers down at the docks.

Regards,

Boris

[Witch]

Good Lord... I think I know the lady from the alleged MJK portrait and it's not Mary Jane Kelly.



Meet archduchess Marie Valerie von Habsburg, the youngest child of the emperor Franz Josef and his wife Elisabeth of Bavaria.

[mklhawley]

Wow! I think you nailed it. Her lips even have the same look.

Sincerely,
Mike

[Bridewell]

Similar

Wow! I think you nailed it. Her lips even have the same look.

Sincerely,
Mike

Very similar certainly. I'm not convinced it's the same person, but there's certainly a similarity.

Regards, Bridewell.