The Broken Window

[Robert]

As usual with anything visual, I'm all at sea.

I can see how that might be a lock - though it's too blurred to be sure. But could someone tell me what is the shaft of light? Is it the light from where the door opens on its hinges, or light from the door being slightly open at the further side from the hinges?

[Stephen Thomas]

So that door is either open or the lock is on the left?

Hi Nemo

No, the door is closed and the lock is on the right.

All the best

[Nemo]

So that door is either open or the lock is on the left?

I always thought the lock was on the right from this angle

You can see the vertical planks of the door

If the lock was on the left, the table must have been behind the door when they opened it, like a barricade, rather than the door just opening wide from the right and banging against the table

Even in the circumstance of the handle being on the right, the position of the door handle in the picture would indicate that the door had swung wide open, past the table, and that line of light would be outside the door

[Stephen Thomas]

For those who may have missed seeing it, I'm re-posting this terrific image enhancement by Steve (whose posting name I think is sgh) which actually shows the lock that had a round doorknob to open the door from inside.

[harry]

Thanks Garry,
To get an idea of the different type of locks available,use a search engine.I us ed Google,it will throw up scores of different makes an d models.In particular,look at the bar bolt system,a simple locking mechanism.Requires a key to both open and shut.

[Bob Hinton]

Broken Glass

Stephen,
There were a number of different makes of Mortice locks,some incorporating a spring mechanism,and some a lever mechanism,and some both.Some also included deadbolts,some catches.Some would be operated by the same key from both sides of the door.Some simple lever type,were not self locking,they required a key,both to open and close
The type of lock on Kelly's door is not stipulated,and Barnett does not mention the method used to secure the door from the outside.Why I say Mortice lock,is because there is no photo of the door that shows another type.The mortice would be cut into the edge of the door,and obscured when shut.All that would show is the key hole.
While I accept that there might have been a spring mechanism to self shut,I have to accept Mikes point that it might also have been neccessary to trip the catch through the window on leaving.I look at all options.

I did post pictures of the type of lock that in all probability would have been fitted to the door some time ago. It's an old type called a night latch. I still have the lock somewhere.

[Garry Wroe]

As ever, Harry, wonderful post. There's nothing like the knowledge borne of direct experience.

Best wishes.

Garry Wroe.

[harry]

Stephen,
There were a number of different makes of Mortice locks,some incorporating a spring mechanism,and some a lever mechanism,and some both.Some also included deadbolts,some catches.Some would be operated by the same key from both sides of the door.Some simple lever type,were not self locking,they required a key,both to open and close
The type of lock on Kelly's door is not stipulated,and Barnett does not mention the method used to secure the door from the outside.Why I say Mortice lock,is because there is no photo of the door that shows another type.The mortice would be cut into the edge of the door,and obscured when shut.All that would show is the key hole.
While I accept that there might have been a spring mechanism to self shut,I have to accept Mikes point that it might also have been neccessary to trip the catch through the window on leaving.I look at all options.

[jason_c]

Where is it suggested there was blood on the glass?

[Stephen Thomas]

We do not know for sure that the latch/catch was of the spring kind

Hi Harry

Yes we do, because otherwise it would have needed a key from the inside.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I would suggest that its a safe bet, that single women of the court, ie Prater, and in November anyway Mjk, would take every precaution at least at night to, feel secure in their room.
Prater barrackaded her door, and I would suggest that Mary would have used her table for that purpose at night.
That being the case if her killer entered via the window , by using the window trick, he would have still had to be very carefully how he opened the door without banging on the table.
For that reason I would suggest that Kelly was not in bed asleep when attacked, and infact the door to the room was on the latch when her killer entered.
The fact that she was down to her chemise, suggests that Astracan was not her killer, the cries of 'Oh Murder' came some 90 minutes after he entered the room, and I very much doubt the Rippers murderous control would have spanned that distance.
Taking the inquest evidence of Praters, the report from Kit Watkins, the statement of Maxwell, the positioning of the bedroll, it would seem likely to me that her killer, was the last male seen with her ie Market porter, and he entered the door of her room upon invitation, when poor Mary Kelly had her guard down, after all Jack did not strike in daylight.......did he?
As for the blood on the glass, it was done by the killer when pulling the pilot coat back over the window to hide the view, as kelly had already pulled it aside as it was morning.
Regards Richard.

[Bob Hinton]

Broken Glass

My final post on this subject, if reaching through the broken window to slip the bolt was so easy then why didn't anybody do it?

[Bob Hinton]

Firstly – clearly, and without any doubt, it is the two panes nearest the passage that were broken – upper and lower. This is visible from the photograph, and from the witness testimony.
.

What witness testimony is that? The only testimony given by a witness is that given by Bowyer at the inquest and he clearly indicates a different window pane?

I do wish people would stop dragging up this bit about opening the door by reaching through the window as being easy. Abberline at the inquest never said that. He said he had been told about opening the door by reaching through the window by Barnett. As for the ease of this operation nothing is claimed.

The only time it being easy is mentioned is in the newspaper, now you have to decide which record you adhere to, that written by a reporter or the official record.

As for blood on the window glass I am quite sure that is fantasy, made up by the reporter to give added impact to the story. Why would there be blood on the window pane?

[belinda]

The killer could still have followed her and seen how she got into the room whether it was through the window or not.
However she got in he may have been able to get in the same way

[harry]

We do not know for sure that the latch/catch was of the spring kind,so Mike's suggestion of also having to reach through the window to set it,cannot be discarded out of hand.I cannot see McCarthy or Kelly if one of them had to install a replacement for the loss of the key,going for anything but the cheaper brand of catch/latch,which did not contain a spring.That the catch/latch still had to be set is evidenced by the door having to be forced.
Silly thread or not,the means of entry was and is a vital element in the Ripper crimes.That entry by the door seems the most feasible means of access to the room,it has to be shown how it was manipulated since there was no key.