The Broken Window

[The Good Michael]

The killer, after leaving Kelly, reached through the broken window pane, that he was familiar with, and latched the door. His fingers had blood on them from the slaughter and left their marks on the glass. Who knew about the broken window? Barnett, Kelly, Mccarthy, Bowyer, Blotchy (maybe), all denizens of the court? Sure, why not?

Mike

[Chava]

Hi Sally and welcome to the boards!

The issue of the broken window has never been clearly explained, and as you know, we're not all in agreement as to which panes were broken. But if anyone managed to gain ingress to the room via the window I think it would have had to have been via the pane on the lower right as we look from the outside of the room. There is a discernible shadow there, and I assume that's a break.

[Fisherman]

...aaand that´s as good as anybodys first post is gonna be. Welcome to the boards, Sally - and keep it up. I believe you are right on the money here.

The best,
Fisherman

[Sally]

Hi All

This is going back a few pages, so I apologise if the discussion has moved on since -


According to the Daily Telegraph, this is what Inspector Abberline said with reference to the missing key and broken window in his testimony at the inquest of Mary Kelly:

‘An impression has gone abroad that the murderer took away the key of the room. Barnett informs me that it has been missing some time, and since it has been lost they have put their hand through the broken window, and moved back the catch. It is quite easy’ - Daily Telegraph, November 13th 1888 (my emphasis)

This statement seems to me to be quite clear in itself. If correct, it dispels one or two apparent ambiguities. It seems clear, for example, that Barnett and Kelly had been reaching through the broken window in order to open the door - and not lifting the sash. As this would be an easier, less hazardous option, it’s probably safe to assume it wasn’t one available to them.

I think Abberline’s statement indicates that the key had only been lost since, or after, the 30th October, but that it also indicates that Barnett - as well as Kellly - had been using this method to gain entrance to No. 13 since his departure on the 30th October.

I think Abberline’s statement that ‘It is quite easy’ to gain entry to the room in this way can be read to indicate that Abberline had tried it himself. This is a possibility in my view. On the other hand, I think the context of that part of his statement is sufficiently ambiguous for doubt - alternatively, perhaps he was reporting that Barnett had told him it was easy. I think that one’s open to debate.

I don’t think it likely that Abberline would just have taken Barnett’s word for it though, and even if he hadn’t personally tried it (and if he had, that begs a few questions more..) then I would expect that he had at least verified to his own satisfaction that the idea was plausible - even if all he did was have a good look.

Others may disagree, but personally, I can’t imagine how opening the door through a broken window can have possibly been ‘quite easy’ unless the method was employed through the bottom right pane of the broken window.

From the photographs posted here, it does look to me as though the bottom right hand pane is broken, but I know photographs can be misleading to the eye.

[Bob Hinton]

Broken Glass

Harry
Let me explain it once again. I maintain that MJK didn’t bother to lock the door when she went out, NOT when she was inside alone.

What I believe happened is this. MJK returns to room with Blotchy face. Door is on the latch they enter for drinks and nibbles. She doesn’t bother to lock the door on this occasion.

Later she goes out again to seek business. She leaves the door on the latch again. She returns with man, by this time she is drunk, after finishing she is laying drunk or asleep on her bed.

Man leaves, not knowing how to drop the snib or simply not bothering, he exits again leaving the door on the latch.

Killer, who has been watching room, sees man leave and enters through door which is on the latch.

[Rubyretro]

I totally agree, Harry, on every point, and I think that Belinda's scenario is very likely.

[belinda]

What if....... The killer followed Mary saw how she let herself in,waited till she was asleep and then let himself in?

[harry]

It has been said that Kelly,under the influence of drink,might have forgotten to latch the door securely,allowing it to be opened from the outside.Further,that there was so little in the way of valuables inside,that a little laxity could be allowed.
I am not of that opinion.The greatest treasure of course was herself.Self preservation was ,and still is,the principal reason people take precautions,and there is no reason to suppose that she valued her hide less than anyone else.
She was under the influence of alcohol agreed,but not incapable,and habit alone might have been sufficent to ensure the door was latched on the inside.

She might too,have made note of the clothes left by the friend,and that combined with her own belongings,an added incentive to ensure the room was as safe from outside intrusion,as could be.She had little,but when that is all you have,it is the only things that are precious.
Unfortunately she could not safe proof the window.

[Chava]

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this. There are a number of possibilities. First possibility, the journalist reporting Bowyer's statement embroidered it a bit for sensationalism. He added the blood on the window as another horrific detail. Next, Bowyer reported the blood on the window for much the same reason as the journo. It made a very nasty story even creepier. But I doubt that's what happened. And if Bowyer was lying, I think I can come up with a good reason for it. He needed to explain to the cops and everyone else why he looked through the window. For some reason Bowyer doesn't want to admit he spied on MJK. He could have said his boss had told him to make sure she was actually out if he didn't get an answer, but I don't think he wants to involve McCarthy more than absolutely necessary. Blood would have been uppermost on his mind at that moment, so he talks about blood on the window.

However there is also the possibility that he did see blood on the broken glass. And that, as I've said, tells us how the killer entered and also if true removes both Blotchy Face and Mr Astrakhan from the frame. After all, both of those men were apparently seen in MJK's company, and she let both of them into the room. No need to break in there.

[Fisherman]

"It could have been there for weeks."

I´m inclined to believe otherwise. To begin with, the window was only broken on October 30:th, so we are left with ten days only, and also, Bowyer clearly connects the blood on the window to what he saw on the bed, and I think that means it would have looked fresh to him.
I prefer your first suggestion.

The best,
Fisherman

[Raoul's Obsession]

of course, the other two possibilities are that:
a) the newspaper sensationalised in order to sell copy - i.e. this was never mentioned at an inquest which would be strange given its possible importance and the fact that the police must have spoken to Bowyer.

b) we don't know how long the blood was there. It could have been there for weeks. Maybe Kelly or Barnett cut themselves when letting themselves in and thereafter decided no longer to lock the door. Possible given all the people on this thread talking about far they would have had to reach through to get to the door handle.

[Fisherman]

Okay, Chava - then we have no exact location of the blood, and therefore we cannot tell whose blood it was. But we know that there were some pints of Kellys blood around in the room.
As for the pilot coat, we shall never know whether it was covering the whole of the window or not. And there are more possibilities around than the killer cutting himself or splashing Kellys blood on the window while eviscerating her! There is, for instance, the possibility that the coat did not cover the window effectively, and that the killer noticed this after already having had his hands bloodied. After that, he may have gone to the window and arranged the coat so as to better conceal his handiwork, smearing the window with his hands in the process. Und so weiter.
Whichever way we look at it, we are left with guesswork, which I think we both realize!

The best, Chava!
Fisherman

[Chava]

Chava:

"Once again, I'm not putting forward a theory, simply examining a possibility."

That´s fine, Chava! But what about the blood being present at the cutting edge, as you proposed - do you have any confirmation of where that blood was situated?

The best,
Fisherman

I can only refer you to the piece in the Daily Telegraph that I reported earlier. Bowyer--it claimed--noticed blood on the glass and then reached through and drew the 'curtain' back to see what was going on. He must have noticed it easily, so I imagine it was on the lower edge of the lower broken pane. That's where I found it, so I'm not proposing it, just pointing it out. There would be no splashes of blood on the window because, as I noted, the pilot coat hung over it from the inside and so any blood splashes would fall on that.

[Fisherman]

Chava:

"Once again, I'm not putting forward a theory, simply examining a possibility."

That´s fine, Chava! But what about the blood being present at the cutting edge, as you proposed - do you have any confirmation of where that blood was situated?

The best,
Fisherman

[Abby Normal]

No I accept that Hutchinson saw MJK with someone in the street and later going to her room, however he was nothing like the description he gave which is totally fictitious. I use the phrase "Astrakhan Man" simply as a means of giving him a label.

I also agree with this possibility if it was not Blotchy who GH was waiting for to leave.