The Broken Window

[Bob Hinton]

Broken Glass

Stephen,
There were a number of different makes of Mortice locks,some incorporating a spring mechanism,and some a lever mechanism,and some both.Some also included deadbolts,some catches.Some would be operated by the same key from both sides of the door.Some simple lever type,were not self locking,they required a key,both to open and close
The type of lock on Kelly's door is not stipulated,and Barnett does not mention the method used to secure the door from the outside.Why I say Mortice lock,is because there is no photo of the door that shows another type.The mortice would be cut into the edge of the door,and obscured when shut.All that would show is the key hole.
While I accept that there might have been a spring mechanism to self shut,I have to accept Mikes point that it might also have been neccessary to trip the catch through the window on leaving.I look at all options.

I did post pictures of the type of lock that in all probability would have been fitted to the door some time ago. It's an old type called a night latch. I still have the lock somewhere.

[harry]

Thanks Garry,
To get an idea of the different type of locks available,use a search engine.I us ed Google,it will throw up scores of different makes an d models.In particular,look at the bar bolt system,a simple locking mechanism.Requires a key to both open and shut.

[Stephen Thomas]

For those who may have missed seeing it, I'm re-posting this terrific image enhancement by Steve (whose posting name I think is sgh) which actually shows the lock that had a round doorknob to open the door from inside.

[Nemo]

So that door is either open or the lock is on the left?

I always thought the lock was on the right from this angle

You can see the vertical planks of the door

If the lock was on the left, the table must have been behind the door when they opened it, like a barricade, rather than the door just opening wide from the right and banging against the table

Even in the circumstance of the handle being on the right, the position of the door handle in the picture would indicate that the door had swung wide open, past the table, and that line of light would be outside the door

[Stephen Thomas]

So that door is either open or the lock is on the left?

Hi Nemo

No, the door is closed and the lock is on the right.

All the best

[Robert]

As usual with anything visual, I'm all at sea.

I can see how that might be a lock - though it's too blurred to be sure. But could someone tell me what is the shaft of light? Is it the light from where the door opens on its hinges, or light from the door being slightly open at the further side from the hinges?

[Stephen Thomas]

. But could someone tell me what is the shaft of light? Is it the light from where the door opens on its hinges, or light from the door being slightly open at the further side from the hinges?

Hi Robert

The shaft of light is coming from between two screens set up by the police/and or the photographer to enable the photos to be taken and/or deprive prying eyes via the right hand window from the outside and errrrrr duh from the left window from the inside.

But ho, hum, whatever.

[curious4]

broken window

Just been reading Daniel Farsonīs book. He claims to have interviewed Mrs Coxīs niece. Quote:"Now next morning a Mrs Storey who was always in and out of Maryīs room to have a pinch of snuff and a chat, was the first person to find the terrible body. Mary had a string on the door so anybody visiting had no need to lock." Inferring that anyone who wanted to come in just had to reach through and pull the string - wouldnīt have to put the whole arm through.

Think that the bit about Mrs Storey being the first to find the body can be taken with a pinch of salt, but the "string on the door" does have a ring of truth to it.

[curious4]

broken window 2

Sorry, last should read "no need to knock" not "no need to lock" - all over the place today!

[richardnunweek]

Hi Curious,
Thanks for bringing that to our attention again, Mrs Coxs neice also described Mary Kelly as gin swigging, fond of sailors type, liked to sing etc.
Actually, quite a bit of the 'albeit' hearsay has a ring of truth about it, and the 'string trick' makes a lot of sense.
I have been frowned upon many times over the years for taking alleged gossip to seriously, but the string is a fascinating point.
I am not certain if Mrs Storeys account of finding the body first, has any truth in it, however there is a report which has residents reporting to McCarthy that they were concerned Marys blinds were down , and they could get no answer from her room.
Regards Richard.

[curious4]

broken window 3

Thanks Richard! I do think quite a lot of the "gossip" can contain facts - at the time there were people alive who could remember what happened quite clearly. Not sure about Mrs S. though - although I should think she would have been hanging round the door very closely when the police broke the door down!

[richardnunweek]

Hi ,
I find it amazing that nobody else has joined in the piece of string report, do we simply draw a conclusion, that Dan Farson was telling a porkie, rather like the spitting report'. which has been suggested, invented by the said gentleman.
Are we suggesting that no interview with Mrs Coxs neice ever took place?
Are we suggesting that such gems as .
The piece of string .
The whole account by the neice is pure bunkum?
Made up by a man under the influence of alcohol.
With the string we have a very straightforeward way of opening the door to room 13, without reaching through the window... have we not?
Regards Richard.

[harry]

I did mention,perhaps the last time the lock was discussed,that the distance reaching through could be shortened by the use of string.This might be suitable if the door was secured on the inside by a simple latch.In the down position,a latch would resist all but the stoutish pressure,and such a latch could be self locking.

[Bob Hinton]

Hi ,
I find it amazing that nobody else has joined in the piece of string report, do we simply draw a conclusion, that Dan Farson was telling a porkie, rather like the spitting report'. which has been suggested, invented by the said gentleman.
Are we suggesting that no interview with Mrs Coxs neice ever took place?
Are we suggesting that such gems as .
The piece of string .
The whole account by the neice is pure bunkum?
Made up by a man under the influence of alcohol.
With the string we have a very straightforeward way of opening the door to room 13, without reaching through the window... have we not?
Regards Richard.

Richard,

You have the unfortunate habit of assuming everyone tells the absolute gospel truth or are liars. Most of the time the actual truth is somewhere in between. People often say what they think the listener wants to hear, if telling the tale of finding a body they might well add a bit of garnish by saying the window had bloodstains on it. Reporters often "sex" things up a bit (ask Blair) if they think it will read better.

Why don't you accept that people being interviewed about what was the most important event in their lives might just gild the lily a bit?

MJK might very well have used a bit of string to open the door, but you've got to ask yourself why Barnett, who actually lived there didn't know about it.

At the same time you have to ask why none of the police officers who were obviously concerned about methods of entry didn't mention it either.

[curious4]

Broken window 4

Sorry I must have missed something - how do we know Barnett didnīt know about the supposed string? Not mentioning something doesnīt always mean that a person doesnīt know about it. Also I should think that the police had enough to think about when they saw the body and may well have thought that a piece of string was of no importance. After all, there wasnīt the careful examination of a crime scene as there is today.