The Broken Window

[Fisherman]

Bob Hinton:

"Killer arrives and finds the door on the latch and enters. He stabs down through the sheet which wakens MJK who manages to gasp out 'Murder' before she succumbs."

Why was he there in the first place? He would not go in search for street prostitution inside the court, would he? And he would not start at one end of Dorset street, checking all the doors, would he?

If he was not solicited by Kelly in the streets, then the more reasonable suggestion would be that he knew who lived in 13 Millerīs Court, wouldnīt you say?

"what is there to steal?"

Her life, obviously. And we know she was scared of the Ripper, as witnessed about by Barnett. Then again, not remembering to lock the door would be easy to accept if she was more or less drunk.

As for stabbing through the sheets, I believe we only know that the sheet was much cut in the top left hand corner, close to the wall. Bond suggested that this was due to the killer having covered her face before he cut away. Is this what you are suggesting too, or do you think that he stabbed away elsewhere through the sheet? And why do you think that, if this is the case? The witnessed-about cut sheet, she was resting on.

The best,
Fisherman

[Bob Hinton]

Very interesting,

Or of course Ochams razor dictates that the killer entered the room by the door which was not locked after MJK's visitor left.

MJK leaves the door on the latch for ease of entry and besides what is there to steal.

She enters with blotchy face and has a beer and a sing song, she gets out of her wet clothes, lights a few rags in the grate to try and dry them and eventually passes out on the bed, blotchy face leaves forgetting to press the snib and lock the door.

Killer arrives and finds the door on the latch and enters. He stabs down through the sheet which wakens MJK who manages to gasp out 'Murder' before she succumbs.

Murderer mutilates body and leaves after pressing snib and causing the door to lock after him.

[Fisherman]

The pilote coat - yes. That dawned on me only this morning, and I see that others have thought about it too. Yes, of course that would have gotten in the way, provided it covered the window totally.

But there are other points to consider too. As I said yesterday, one would have expected blood on the ground outside the room, if he had cut himself in the manner suggested. But not only that, IF he did cut himself on the glass, then the blood - that we do not have in the police reports - would reasonably have ended up on the outside of the window, or, if it for some reason chose to seep down the inside, it would at least have been present at the cutting edge. And if it was, then I say the police would have taken notice of it as a clear indicator that he did cut himself.
Bowyer spicing it up, or the papers selling an extra copy or two - that would be it, no doubt, unless the coat did not cover the window totally. In that case, there could have been the odd dot on the inside, just as there could be dots just about everywhere inside the room. And in that case, it would be understandable if the police reports did not cover each and every drop of blood.

The best,
Fisherman

[Rubyretro]

Possible, but I'll go with Claire that the murderer knew about the window and knew that Mary was alone inside.

an opportunist night prowler would not know that he wouldn't come face to face with some brawny docker in the bed.

If he knew that a Prostitute lived in the room (which still points to a local man, or at least somebody with some personal knowledge), he wouldn't know
that she didn't have a man in the bed with her (or that she didn't have another prostitute in the room with her).

It was dark, and there was a coat over the window, so I can't see that a 'Peeping Tom' could see anything that would attract him to take the risk.

I think that our night prowler knew that she now lived alone, and knew that there was nobody else in the room because he was acquainted with her circumstances and had stalked her earlier in the night.

[Chava]

It could be mis-reporting. It could be Bowyer embroidering. The appearance of blood on the glass is given as his reasoning for reaching in and pulling the 'curtain' apart. Whether there was blood or not, he could not have seen the body through the pilot coat draped across the window, so either he knocked on the door, got no answer, and pulled the coat away to see if she was hiding from the rent-collector--which is entirely possible--or he saw something he didn't like on the window and looked through to check.

Claire, I don't think the location is something that would put a creepy-crawler/prowler off. They're generally not after negotiable goods. So a broken window might well attract someone of that bent to look in. I'd love to know if there was some kind of a prowler nicking underwear etc in the area during this time. Russell Williams broke into innumerable houses, sometimes over and over again, pinching underwear and so on.

[claire]

elsewhere it was reported that Bowyer, getting no reply at the door, and suspecting that Mary could be hiding from the rent collector, looked through the window and saw the body (and it was daylight). There was no mention of blood on the glass, and I'll plump for the Telegraph misreporting.

Definitely a possibility; I'd always thought it was Bowyer who saw the body first and carried that nasty memory with him to the police station.

[Rubyretro]

I've never read this before, so it's very interesting..if it's true and not mis-reporting.

I've always thought that he got in by a hand via the window, when she was asleep, and that she awoke when attacked (the cries of 'Murder!' and the defense wounds on her arms..).

I'm surprised that he would cut himself, because I had understood that the holes in the pane were stuffed with rags and newspaper, when she was inside. I would expect some of that to be well caught on the glass and protect an arm.

If the killer HAD left blood from a cut on the glass, I'm surprised that the police weren't doing lots of publicity looking for someone with a fresh jagged cut to their hand or forearm and no alibi or explanation for it.

They didn't, and elsewhere it was reported that Bowyer, getting no reply at the door, and suspecting that Mary could be hiding from the rent collector, looked through the window and saw the body (and it was daylight). There was no mention of blood on the glass, and I'll plump for the Telegraph misreporting.

[claire]

I think Chava's right here, Fish--the coat would have formed a barrier between the glass in the window and any carnage in the room. Where I differ in the interpretation is the idea that the blood on the glass speaks to a night-prowler happening upon the broken window and entering the room on an opportunistic basis. For one, Miller's-court isn't the natural choice for someone browsing for opportunities; for two, given the darkness, he'd have to be pretty confident of gaining access, and deft of hand, to slip an arm in, grope around for the catch (on the offchance it was possible to do that). No, as we've hinted at on another thread, it seems to me that, if this was how her killer gained access, it was because he knew he could. This doesn't necessarily mean he would have been welcomed by MJ had he knocked on her door at 3am, but it does suggest he knew the basic logistics of getting into the MC room.

Good source, Chava.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I remember reading, that it was believed, the killer left by the window, hense the bloodstained glass , which was proberly his murderous hands leaving their mark
ugh.. what a ghastly scene?
A big No No, if it was that easy to get out, without using the obvious exit, then it would be the same getting in...would it not?, unless he locked the window catch[ if any] via the broken pane, and the police were void of intelligence.
Regards Richard.

[Chava]

I understand your point, Fisherman, but there is no suggestion that blood was found in the room other than around the body and in the vicinity of the bed. Also, if blood was spattered like that, it would hit the pilot coat hanging over the window as a curtain rather than hitting the glass.

[Fisherman]

Hmmm, Chava. It appears to be a good suggestion at first, but when I give it some thought, Iīm less sure.

Letīs assume that the killer did receive a nasty cut as he reached through the window. And letīs assume that it started to bleed immediately, staining that broken pane. To begin with, the better assumption in such a case would be that it was his hand he cut, since arguably the rest of the arm would be covered by a sleeve.
So there he is, with a hand dripping with blood, still outside the room. Such a thing would produce drops of blood on the ground outside the window, but no such thing is recorded. Furthermore, one would expect the same blood droplets forming a trail around the corner, up to the door - again, no such thing on record.

On the other hand, we had a man inside that room that flung chunks of freshly cut off meat around himself, stacking them on the table beside the bed. And the room was but a small one. I donīt find it in any way incredible that this would have produced drops of blood all over the place. Imagine him grabbing hold of the intestines inside her and ripping them out to get at the contents of the abdominal cavity. They may well have swung out of her, Chava, sending drops of you-name-it very long distances. Take a length of rope, dip it in fresh paint and swing it a hundred-and-eighty degrees through the air, and you will find yourself cleaning up paint drops ten- fifteen feet away.

I think this is a better solution. We know that most of Mary Kellys blood was not to be found inside her when she was found. It would not have been neatly collected in just the one spot.

The best,
Fisherman

[Chava]

This is from the Daily Telegraph first report of the murder, which seems to have found its way into police files.

Accordingly Bowyer knocked at the door of Kelly's room, but received no answer. Having failed to open the door, he passed round the angle of the house and pulled the blind of the window, one of the panes being broken. Then he noticed blood upon the glass, and it immediately occurred to him that another murder had been committed. He fetched M'Carthy, who, looking through the window, saw upon the bed, which was against the wall, the body of a woman, without clothing, and terribly mutilated.

I've highlighted the stuff about blood on the glass, because if it's true it tends to corroborate someone reaching through the window and dropping the latch on the door and so creeping in on MJK as she is sleeping. I can't see how the blood on the window glass could belong to anyone else but the killer, who gave himself a nasty cut on the arm while reaching through. The body was clear across the room, and any arterial spray went against the far wall.

If this is in fact the case, then it could be a night-stalker-type prowler. Someone who creeps around late at night, notices a broken window, looks through to see a woman on the bed, and then steals in and kills her. I've always thought MJK let her killer into her room, but this model could suggest someone who crept in while she was dead drunk and asleep and killed her more-or-less before she woke. Which could explain the lack of noise and struggle.

The blood on the window does not negate the possibility that she was killed by someone who knew her. But it does suggest that she was killed by someone who might not have been allowed entrance by her if he came to the front door.

The Russell Williams case up here--which is a particularly nasty one--shows us that a killer can commit many different types of offences, from breaking into young girls' bedrooms and trying on their panties to breaking into grown women's houses and killing them in a horrible way. It's possible that the Ripper was a Night Stalker who might well have wandered around like a peeping tom and nicked stuff when the possibility offered itself as well as a man who accosted prostitutes as a trick and then killed them. It's possible that the MJK killing was a kind of confluence of his two pastimes.

[Garry Wroe]

Although it still needs more work, I've cleaned up Jane's image such that the panes are much clearer. Make of it what you will.



Garry Wroe.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Daily Telegraph, 13th November 1888–

Bowyer: " . . . I got no answer, and I knocked again and again. Receiving no reply, I passed round the corner by the gutter spout, where there is a broken window - it is the smallest window."

Charles Ledger, an inspector of police, G Division, produced a plan of the premises.

Bowyer pointed out the window, which was the one nearest the entrance.

Regards,

Simon

[Bob Hinton]

Broken Glass

All the photograph shows after all the excellent work done by various members is that there is a possibility that behind some of the window panes there are dark patches, which could be anything.